Re: [Ietf-languages] Proposal for variant language subtags for German dialects

[Martin Hosken <[e-mail]>]

I realise that this opinion does not fit with current thinking, but with a
potential never ending series of requests for variants, might there be some
value in defining some generic variants that can be used for many
languages. I'm thinking of: "varnorth", " varsouth", "vareast", "varwest",
"varcntr" or somesuch.

GB,
Martin

On Mon, 25 Sept 2023, 16:21 John Cowan, <[e-mail]> wrote:

> That is correct.
>
> The reason I didn't spell out what changes to make is that I don't know
> which varieties are sufficiently different from the existing tagged
> languages to require a separate 639-3 code.  Furthermore, sometimes the
> answer is "jein"; e.g. 'bav' is (Austro)Bavarian, which is not mutually
> intelligible with Standard German, but there is also the Bavarian variant
> of Standard German, which is similar to bav in some ways but not a variant
> of it.  This distinction esolving these issues requires not only domain
> knowledge I don't have but also what any or all of these subtags were
> *intended* for, which of course I don't know.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 1:38 AM Doug Ewell <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>> It sounds like your recommendations are for Lisa to:
>>
>> (a) propose some of these to ISO 639-3/RA as full language codes, instead
>> of here;
>>
>> (b) for the remaining variants, identify those that should have a Prefix
>> field of ʼnds’ or ‘gsw’ and change them accordingly; and
>>
>> (c) change the Subtag field of those subtags in (b) above which currently
>> start with “ger” so that they start with “deu” or “nds” or “gsw” as
>> appropriate.
>>
>> Is that correct? These questions are for both John and Michael. If these
>> were my proposals, I would be more than a little unclear exactly what
>> changes are being requested.
>>
>> --
>> Doug Ewell, CC, ALB | Lakewood, CO, US | ewellic.org
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ietf-languages <[e-mail]> On Behalf Of
>> Michael Everson
>> Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2023 15:59
>> To: IETF Languages Discussion <[e-mail]>
>> Subject: Re: [Ietf-languages] Proposal for variant language subtags for
>> German dialects
>>
>> My understanding is similar to John’s.
>>
>> Michael Everson
>>
>> > On 12 Sep 2023, at 15:54, John Cowan <[e-mail]> wrote:
>> >
>> > In my opinion:
>> >
>> > For the Central and Upper German varieties, you don't make clear
>> whether you are talking about the various Mundarten (e.g. Austrobavarian)
>> or their counterpart regionalects of Standard German (e.g. Austrian and
>> Bavarian Standard German respectively).  If the former, you should probably
>> apply to the ISO 639-3 Registration Authority to get 3-letter language tags
>> assigned, at least for as many varieties as are clearly not mutually
>> intelligible with each other or with Standard German.  This is a slower
>> process but produces a result more in line with the rest of the world's
>> languages.
>> >
>> > Varieties that are not separated from Standard German by mutually
>> unintelligibility should have the kind of tags you have used, although I
>> recommend using "deu" as a prefix rather than the obsolescent "ger".
>> >
>> > My understanding is that Low German is (still) a dialect continuum, and
>> so it is appropriate to use variant tags beginning with "nds".  High and
>> Highest Alemannic variant tags should be prefixed with "gsw".  Whether Low
>> Alemannic should also have "gsw" is a question.
>>
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