Re: [Ietf-languages] Proposal for variant language subtags for German dialects

[John Cowan <[e-mail]>]

That is correct.

The reason I didn't spell out what changes to make is that I don't know
which varieties are sufficiently different from the existing tagged
languages to require a separate 639-3 code.  Furthermore, sometimes the
answer is "jein"; e.g. 'bav' is (Austro)Bavarian, which is not mutually
intelligible with Standard German, but there is also the Bavarian variant
of Standard German, which is similar to bav in some ways but not a variant
of it.  This distinction esolving these issues requires not only domain
knowledge I don't have but also what any or all of these subtags were
*intended* for, which of course I don't know.





On Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 1:38 AM Doug Ewell <[e-mail]> wrote:

> It sounds like your recommendations are for Lisa to:
>
> (a) propose some of these to ISO 639-3/RA as full language codes, instead
> of here;
>
> (b) for the remaining variants, identify those that should have a Prefix
> field of ʼnds’ or ‘gsw’ and change them accordingly; and
>
> (c) change the Subtag field of those subtags in (b) above which currently
> start with “ger” so that they start with “deu” or “nds” or “gsw” as
> appropriate.
>
> Is that correct? These questions are for both John and Michael. If these
> were my proposals, I would be more than a little unclear exactly what
> changes are being requested.
>
> --
> Doug Ewell, CC, ALB | Lakewood, CO, US | ewellic.org
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ietf-languages <[e-mail]> On Behalf Of
> Michael Everson
> Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2023 15:59
> To: IETF Languages Discussion <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: [Ietf-languages] Proposal for variant language subtags for
> German dialects
>
> My understanding is similar to John’s.
>
> Michael Everson
>
> > On 12 Sep 2023, at 15:54, John Cowan <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >
> > In my opinion:
> >
> > For the Central and Upper German varieties, you don't make clear whether
> you are talking about the various Mundarten (e.g. Austrobavarian)  or their
> counterpart regionalects of Standard German (e.g. Austrian and Bavarian
> Standard German respectively).  If the former, you should probably apply to
> the ISO 639-3 Registration Authority to get 3-letter language tags
> assigned, at least for as many varieties as are clearly not mutually
> intelligible with each other or with Standard German.  This is a slower
> process but produces a result more in line with the rest of the world's
> languages.
> >
> > Varieties that are not separated from Standard German by mutually
> unintelligibility should have the kind of tags you have used, although I
> recommend using "deu" as a prefix rather than the obsolescent "ger".
> >
> > My understanding is that Low German is (still) a dialect continuum, and
> so it is appropriate to use variant tags beginning with "nds".  High and
> Highest Alemannic variant tags should be prefixed with "gsw".  Whether Low
> Alemannic should also have "gsw" is a question.
>