Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings

[Allison Mankin <[e-mail]>]

Ah, this issue escaped my attention while I was IRTF Chair during ANRW18.

Good to message it clearly this time, given the decision

On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 10:00 AM Colin Perkins <[e-mail]> wrote:

> I’ve previously asked the chairs to make this clear in their introductory
> slides.
> Colin
>
>
>
> > On 21 Jul 2019, at 09:53, Scott O. Bradner <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >
> > sorry, I was confused by the meeting at the IETF - I expect I’m not the
> only one based on the discussion - maybe the first slide needs to say
> >
> >       “THIS IS NOT AN IRTF RG”
> >
> > Scott
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Jul 21, 2019, at 9:46 AM, Colin Perkins <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >>
> >> Since the ANRW is an academic conference, we made the decision to
> follow the usual norms for such events and not require IPR disclosure.
> >>
> >> If the work is brought into an IRTF RG, or an IETF WG, then the usual
> IRTF and IETF IPR disclosure rules apply.
> >>
> >> Colin
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 21 Jul 2019, at 09:41, Scott O. Bradner <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> you made an explicit decision that people can hide their IPR?
> >>>
> >>> have fun with that
> >>>
> >>> Scott
> >>>
> >>>> On Jul 21, 2019, at 9:36 AM, Colin Perkins <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> The ANRW is an academic workshop that happens to be co-located with
> IETF. We made an explicit decision when starting the workshop, several
> years ago now, that the Note Well does not apply to it.
> >>>>
> >>>> If work is brought from ANRW into either an IRTF RG or an IETF WG,
> then the Note Well would apply, of course.
> >>>>
> >>>> Colin
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 21 Jul 2019, at 08:08, Scott O. Bradner <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ps - I see that ANRW is an IRTF research group - thus
> https://irtf.org/ipr applies
> >>>>> (and that says that the IETF rules apply)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Scott
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Jul 21, 2019, at 8:02 AM, Scott O. Bradner <[e-mail]>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> you are entitled to your opinion, of course, but I am speaking as a
> person who ran the BOF where the specific
> >>>>>> text "intended to affect the IETF Standards Process” was developed
> and agreed to as well as a person who
> >>>>>> edited the specific text - it is my opinion that the BOF (and thus
> the IETF) intended the rules to apply
> >>>>>> wherever actions are taken or text developed that are "intended to
> affect the IETF Standards Process”
> >>>>>> in particular, IPR disclosure is required if known
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I have no opinion as to the facts of the specific case of ANRW
> since I have not been following that
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Scott
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Jul 21, 2019, at 7:42 AM, Richard Barnes <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Scott, I think you may be over-stating things a bit.  The IETF
> doesn't get to make universal statements that apply to things out of its
> remit.  For example, there are numerous research conferences that are held
> on IETF-related technologies -- often with a specific focus on providing
> helpful input to IETF! -- which are not held under note well.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The location of such meetings alongside IETF meetings does not
> change this fact.  AFAICT, ANRW is not covered by Note Well, despite having
> the explicit goal of "transition[ing] research back into IETF".
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The definition of Contribution in 8179 makes this clear from the
> start:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> """
> >>>>>>> "Contribution": any submission to the IETF ...
> >>>>>>> """
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 7:27 AM Adrian Farrel <[e-mail]>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>> Thanks Scott, that's helpful.
> >>>>>>> A
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>> From: Scott O. Bradner <[e-mail]>
> >>>>>>> Sent: 21 July 2019 11:24
> >>>>>>> To: Adrian Farrel <[e-mail]>
> >>>>>>> Cc: IETF Rinse Repeat <[e-mail]>
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> speaking as co-editor of the ruleset
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> see the definition of “Contribution” in RFC 8179
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> basically, the “note well” applies whenever activities that are
> "intended to
> >>>>>>> affect the IETF Standards Process” may happen
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Scott
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Jul 20, 2019, at 3:18 PM, Adrian Farrel <[e-mail]>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Normally [1] when we have a "bar BoF" (also known as a "side
> meeting") we do
> >>>>>>>> not apply the terms of the "Note Well" [2]. We have usually
> considered bar
> >>>>>>>> BoFs to be outside the IETF because the IETF has no control over
> who meets
> >>>>>>>> and drinks.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> However, this time around, the side meetings are somewhat more
> formal with
> >>>>>>>> room bookings and projectors and advertisements and so on.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> So, does the Note Well apply to these side meetings?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Apologies if I missed an email on this: I sometimes don't focus
> as much as I
> >>>>>>>> should.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>>> Adrian
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> [1] For some practical definition of "normal"
> >>>>>>>> [2] https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>> Read some fairy stories for adults of all ages
> >>>>>>>> .. Tales from the Wood
> >>>>>>>> .. More Tales from the Wood
> >>>>>>>> .. Tales from Beyond the Wood
> >>>>>>>> .. Tales from the Castle
> >>>>>>>> Get them on line https://www.feedaread.com/profiles/8604/
> >>>>>>>> Or buy a signed copy from me by post
> >>>>>>>> *** Stop me in the corridor at IETF-105 to get a copy ***
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Colin Perkins
> >>>> https://csperkins.org/
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Colin Perkins
> >> https://csperkins.org/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Colin Perkins
> https://csperkins.org/
>
>
>
>
>