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Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings

"Scott O. Bradner" <sob@sobco.com> Sun, 21 July 2019 13:42 UTC

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Subject: Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings
From: "Scott O. Bradner" <sob@sobco.com>
In-Reply-To: <13771141-8AB9-4249-A2A3-A4684A74A33A@csperkins.org>
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 09:41:54 -0400
Cc: IETF Rinse Repeat <ietf@ietf.org>
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To: Colin Perkins <csp@csperkins.org>
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you made an explicit decision that people can hide their IPR?

have fun with that

Scott

> On Jul 21, 2019, at 9:36 AM, Colin Perkins <csp@csperkins.org> wrote:
> 
> The ANRW is an academic workshop that happens to be co-located with IETF. We made an explicit decision when starting the workshop, several years ago now, that the Note Well does not apply to it. 
> 
> If work is brought from ANRW into either an IRTF RG or an IETF WG, then the Note Well would apply, of course.
> 
> Colin
> 
> 
> 
>> On 21 Jul 2019, at 08:08, Scott O. Bradner <sob@sobco.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ps - I see that ANRW is an IRTF research group - thus https://irtf.org/ipr applies 
>> (and that says that the IETF rules apply)
>> 
>> Scott
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 21, 2019, at 8:02 AM, Scott O. Bradner <sob@sobco.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> you are entitled to your opinion, of course, but I am speaking as a person who ran the BOF where the specific
>>> text "intended to affect the IETF Standards Process” was developed and agreed to as well as a person who 
>>> edited the specific text - it is my opinion that the BOF (and thus the IETF) intended the rules to apply
>>> wherever actions are taken or text developed that are "intended to affect the IETF Standards Process” 
>>> in particular, IPR disclosure is required if known
>>> 
>>> I have no opinion as to the facts of the specific case of ANRW since I have not been following that
>>> 
>>> Scott
>>> 
>>>> On Jul 21, 2019, at 7:42 AM, Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Scott, I think you may be over-stating things a bit.  The IETF doesn't get to make universal statements that apply to things out of its remit.  For example, there are numerous research conferences that are held on IETF-related technologies -- often with a specific focus on providing helpful input to IETF! -- which are not held under note well.
>>>> 
>>>> The location of such meetings alongside IETF meetings does not change this fact.  AFAICT, ANRW is not covered by Note Well, despite having the explicit goal of "transition[ing] research back into IETF".
>>>> 
>>>> The definition of Contribution in 8179 makes this clear from the start:
>>>> 
>>>> """
>>>> "Contribution": any submission to the IETF ...
>>>> """
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 7:27 AM Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> Thanks Scott, that's helpful.
>>>> A
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Scott O. Bradner <sob@sobco.com> 
>>>> Sent: 21 July 2019 11:24
>>>> To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
>>>> Cc: IETF Rinse Repeat <ietf@ietf.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings
>>>> 
>>>> speaking as co-editor of the ruleset
>>>> 
>>>> see the definition of “Contribution” in RFC 8179
>>>> 
>>>> basically, the “note well” applies whenever activities that are "intended to 
>>>> affect the IETF Standards Process” may happen
>>>> 
>>>> Scott
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jul 20, 2019, at 3:18 PM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Normally [1] when we have a "bar BoF" (also known as a "side meeting") we do
>>>>> not apply the terms of the "Note Well" [2]. We have usually considered bar
>>>>> BoFs to be outside the IETF because the IETF has no control over who meets
>>>>> and drinks.
>>>>> 
>>>>> However, this time around, the side meetings are somewhat more formal with
>>>>> room bookings and projectors and advertisements and so on.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So, does the Note Well apply to these side meetings?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Apologies if I missed an email on this: I sometimes don't focus as much as I
>>>>> should.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Adrian
>>>>> 
>>>>> [1] For some practical definition of "normal"
>>>>> [2] https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/
>>>>> --
>>>>> Read some fairy stories for adults of all ages
>>>>> .. Tales from the Wood
>>>>> .. More Tales from the Wood
>>>>> .. Tales from Beyond the Wood
>>>>> .. Tales from the Castle
>>>>> Get them on line https://www.feedaread.com/profiles/8604/
>>>>> Or buy a signed copy from me by post
>>>>> *** Stop me in the corridor at IETF-105 to get a copy ***
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Colin Perkins
> https://csperkins.org/
> 
> 
> 
>

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