Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings

[Brian E Carpenter <[e-mail]>]

On 23-Jul-19 03:57, Nico Williams wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 06:25:12AM -0400, Richard Barnes wrote:
>> Maybe folks could provide a citation for this?  Because I have exactly the
>> opposite impression — that the Note Well only applies in contexts where it
>> is explicitly stated that it does, e.g., official sessions.
> 
> I've long understood that Note Well applies when and only when
> ('WWHEN'?) it is invoked, 

No. It's only a reminder of the IETF rules, and the rules apply to
all IETF activities -- all "contributions" in the IPR disclosure case.
See the earlier responses in this thread.

> and should be invoked whenever IETF work is
> discussed among participants with different employers even if the
> meeting is not an official IETF meeting.

Since it's only a reminder, it is indeed a "should" but not invoking
it doesn't cancel the rules.

    Brian

> 
> Depending on the cast of attendees I might not invoke Note Well in a
> side meeting with an unstated understanding that we're not out to screw
> each other on IP.  However, this is a bad habit, and I should always
> invoke Note Well when discussing IETF work or potential IETF work with
> colleagues from other organizations.  It's a bad habit not just because
> my friends might purposefully or otherwise screw me, but also because I
> might forget to invoke Note Well when others are around.
> 
> Official IETF meetings are (I guess) required to invoke the Note Well,
> whether they be interim or not, whether they be remote or not, but it
> still needs to be invoked in order to really apply.
> 
> Bar BoFs are unofficial meetings, and thus not required to invoke Note
> Well, thus too arguably there is no implied intent to have Note Well
> apply to them, which is why Note Well should be invoked explicitly.  My
> advice would be that Note Well always be invoked at the start of the bar
> BoF and in any email threads for organizing a bar BoF and any
> invitations sent (so that late arrivals understand the expectation that
> Note Well applies).
> 
> It must not be a common occurrence that bar BoF participants intend Note
> Well to _not_ apply.  It would be nice if Note Well could be made to
> impliedly apply by default, but I guess that's not feasible.> 
>> As Adrian says, there is a line.  I understood that line to be something
>> like, “The organizers of the meeting decide to apply Note Well”, just as
>> one might apply the Chatham House Rule.  So side meetings could be covered
>> if they chose, but not by default.
> 
> +1
> 
>> In any case, the premise for this thread seems a bit confused, since side
>> meetings are by definition not subject to IETF control.
> 
> A lot of work happens in bar BoFs though, so it's a fair question.  So
> either we shouldn't have them at all or we should acknowledge that they
> are a thing.  The IETF can't control a bar BoF, but a) it can provide
> advice about them, and b) it could provide rooms for ad-hoc BoFs with
> Note Well plastered on the walls :)
> 
> Nico
>