Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings
Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com> Mon, 22 July 2019 15:57 UTC
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Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 10:57:15 -0500
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From: Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com>
To: Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx>
Cc: "Salz, Rich" <rsalz@akamai.com>, IETF Rinse Repeat <ietf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings
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On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 06:25:12AM -0400, Richard Barnes wrote: > Maybe folks could provide a citation for this? Because I have exactly the > opposite impression — that the Note Well only applies in contexts where it > is explicitly stated that it does, e.g., official sessions. I've long understood that Note Well applies when and only when ('WWHEN'?) it is invoked, and should be invoked whenever IETF work is discussed among participants with different employers even if the meeting is not an official IETF meeting. Depending on the cast of attendees I might not invoke Note Well in a side meeting with an unstated understanding that we're not out to screw each other on IP. However, this is a bad habit, and I should always invoke Note Well when discussing IETF work or potential IETF work with colleagues from other organizations. It's a bad habit not just because my friends might purposefully or otherwise screw me, but also because I might forget to invoke Note Well when others are around. Official IETF meetings are (I guess) required to invoke the Note Well, whether they be interim or not, whether they be remote or not, but it still needs to be invoked in order to really apply. Bar BoFs are unofficial meetings, and thus not required to invoke Note Well, thus too arguably there is no implied intent to have Note Well apply to them, which is why Note Well should be invoked explicitly. My advice would be that Note Well always be invoked at the start of the bar BoF and in any email threads for organizing a bar BoF and any invitations sent (so that late arrivals understand the expectation that Note Well applies). It must not be a common occurrence that bar BoF participants intend Note Well to _not_ apply. It would be nice if Note Well could be made to impliedly apply by default, but I guess that's not feasible. > As Adrian says, there is a line. I understood that line to be something > like, “The organizers of the meeting decide to apply Note Well”, just as > one might apply the Chatham House Rule. So side meetings could be covered > if they chose, but not by default. +1 > In any case, the premise for this thread seems a bit confused, since side > meetings are by definition not subject to IETF control. A lot of work happens in bar BoFs though, so it's a fair question. So either we shouldn't have them at all or we should acknowledge that they are a thing. The IETF can't control a bar BoF, but a) it can provide advice about them, and b) it could provide rooms for ad-hoc BoFs with Note Well plastered on the walls :) Nico --
- Applying "Note Well" to side meetings Adrian Farrel
- Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings Phillip Hallam-Baker
- RE: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings Adrian Farrel
- Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings Salz, Rich
- Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings Scott O. Bradner
- Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings Richard Barnes
- RE: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings Adrian Farrel
- Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings Richard Barnes
- Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings Scott O. Bradner
- Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings Scott O. Bradner
- Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings Warren Kumari
- Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings John C Klensin
- Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings Colin Perkins
- Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings John C Klensin
- Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings Scott O. Bradner
- Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings Colin Perkins
- Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings Scott O. Bradner
- Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings Colin Perkins
- Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings John C Klensin
- Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings Richard Barnes
- Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings Allison Mankin
- Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings Richard Barnes
- Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings Lars Eggert
- Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings Keith Moore
- Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings S Moonesamy
- Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings Colin Perkins
- Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings Alissa Cooper
- Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings John C Klensin
- RE: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings Adrian Farrel
- Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings Nico Williams
- Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings Nico Williams
- Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings Pete Resnick