Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings

[Colin Perkins <[e-mail]>]

I’ve previously asked the chairs to make this clear in their introductory slides.
Colin



> On 21 Jul 2019, at 09:53, Scott O. Bradner <[e-mail]> wrote:
> 
> sorry, I was confused by the meeting at the IETF - I expect I’m not the only one based on the discussion - maybe the first slide needs to say 
> 
> 	“THIS IS NOT AN IRTF RG”
> 
> Scott
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jul 21, 2019, at 9:46 AM, Colin Perkins <[e-mail]> wrote:
>> 
>> Since the ANRW is an academic conference, we made the decision to follow the usual norms for such events and not require IPR disclosure. 
>> 
>> If the work is brought into an IRTF RG, or an IETF WG, then the usual IRTF and IETF IPR disclosure rules apply.
>> 
>> Colin
>> 
>> 
>>> On 21 Jul 2019, at 09:41, Scott O. Bradner <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> you made an explicit decision that people can hide their IPR?
>>> 
>>> have fun with that
>>> 
>>> Scott
>>> 
>>>> On Jul 21, 2019, at 9:36 AM, Colin Perkins <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> The ANRW is an academic workshop that happens to be co-located with IETF. We made an explicit decision when starting the workshop, several years ago now, that the Note Well does not apply to it. 
>>>> 
>>>> If work is brought from ANRW into either an IRTF RG or an IETF WG, then the Note Well would apply, of course.
>>>> 
>>>> Colin
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 21 Jul 2019, at 08:08, Scott O. Bradner <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> ps - I see that ANRW is an IRTF research group - thus https://irtf.org/ipr applies 
>>>>> (and that says that the IETF rules apply)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Scott
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jul 21, 2019, at 8:02 AM, Scott O. Bradner <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> you are entitled to your opinion, of course, but I am speaking as a person who ran the BOF where the specific
>>>>>> text "intended to affect the IETF Standards Process” was developed and agreed to as well as a person who 
>>>>>> edited the specific text - it is my opinion that the BOF (and thus the IETF) intended the rules to apply
>>>>>> wherever actions are taken or text developed that are "intended to affect the IETF Standards Process” 
>>>>>> in particular, IPR disclosure is required if known
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I have no opinion as to the facts of the specific case of ANRW since I have not been following that
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jul 21, 2019, at 7:42 AM, Richard Barnes <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Scott, I think you may be over-stating things a bit.  The IETF doesn't get to make universal statements that apply to things out of its remit.  For example, there are numerous research conferences that are held on IETF-related technologies -- often with a specific focus on providing helpful input to IETF! -- which are not held under note well.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The location of such meetings alongside IETF meetings does not change this fact.  AFAICT, ANRW is not covered by Note Well, despite having the explicit goal of "transition[ing] research back into IETF".
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The definition of Contribution in 8179 makes this clear from the start:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> """
>>>>>>> "Contribution": any submission to the IETF ...
>>>>>>> """
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 7:27 AM Adrian Farrel <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>>>>>> Thanks Scott, that's helpful.
>>>>>>> A
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Scott O. Bradner <[e-mail]> 
>>>>>>> Sent: 21 July 2019 11:24
>>>>>>> To: Adrian Farrel <[e-mail]>
>>>>>>> Cc: IETF Rinse Repeat <[e-mail]>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> speaking as co-editor of the ruleset
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> see the definition of “Contribution” in RFC 8179
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> basically, the “note well” applies whenever activities that are "intended to 
>>>>>>> affect the IETF Standards Process” may happen
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Jul 20, 2019, at 3:18 PM, Adrian Farrel <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Normally [1] when we have a "bar BoF" (also known as a "side meeting") we do
>>>>>>>> not apply the terms of the "Note Well" [2]. We have usually considered bar
>>>>>>>> BoFs to be outside the IETF because the IETF has no control over who meets
>>>>>>>> and drinks.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> However, this time around, the side meetings are somewhat more formal with
>>>>>>>> room bookings and projectors and advertisements and so on.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> So, does the Note Well apply to these side meetings?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Apologies if I missed an email on this: I sometimes don't focus as much as I
>>>>>>>> should.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Adrian
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> [1] For some practical definition of "normal"
>>>>>>>> [2] https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Read some fairy stories for adults of all ages
>>>>>>>> .. Tales from the Wood
>>>>>>>> .. More Tales from the Wood
>>>>>>>> .. Tales from Beyond the Wood
>>>>>>>> .. Tales from the Castle
>>>>>>>> Get them on line https://www.feedaread.com/profiles/8604/
>>>>>>>> Or buy a signed copy from me by post
>>>>>>>> *** Stop me in the corridor at IETF-105 to get a copy ***
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Colin Perkins
>>>> https://csperkins.org/
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Colin Perkins
>> https://csperkins.org/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 



-- 
Colin Perkins
https://csperkins.org/