Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings

["Scott O. Bradner" <[e-mail]>]

sorry, I was confused by the meeting at the IETF - I expect I’m not the only one based on the discussion - maybe the first slide needs to say 

	“THIS IS NOT AN IRTF RG”

Scott



> On Jul 21, 2019, at 9:46 AM, Colin Perkins <[e-mail]> wrote:
> 
> Since the ANRW is an academic conference, we made the decision to follow the usual norms for such events and not require IPR disclosure. 
> 
> If the work is brought into an IRTF RG, or an IETF WG, then the usual IRTF and IETF IPR disclosure rules apply.
> 
> Colin
> 
> 
>> On 21 Jul 2019, at 09:41, Scott O. Bradner <[e-mail]> wrote:
>> 
>> you made an explicit decision that people can hide their IPR?
>> 
>> have fun with that
>> 
>> Scott
>> 
>>> On Jul 21, 2019, at 9:36 AM, Colin Perkins <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The ANRW is an academic workshop that happens to be co-located with IETF. We made an explicit decision when starting the workshop, several years ago now, that the Note Well does not apply to it. 
>>> 
>>> If work is brought from ANRW into either an IRTF RG or an IETF WG, then the Note Well would apply, of course.
>>> 
>>> Colin
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 21 Jul 2019, at 08:08, Scott O. Bradner <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ps - I see that ANRW is an IRTF research group - thus https://irtf.org/ipr applies 
>>>> (and that says that the IETF rules apply)
>>>> 
>>>> Scott
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jul 21, 2019, at 8:02 AM, Scott O. Bradner <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> you are entitled to your opinion, of course, but I am speaking as a person who ran the BOF where the specific
>>>>> text "intended to affect the IETF Standards Process” was developed and agreed to as well as a person who 
>>>>> edited the specific text - it is my opinion that the BOF (and thus the IETF) intended the rules to apply
>>>>> wherever actions are taken or text developed that are "intended to affect the IETF Standards Process” 
>>>>> in particular, IPR disclosure is required if known
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have no opinion as to the facts of the specific case of ANRW since I have not been following that
>>>>> 
>>>>> Scott
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jul 21, 2019, at 7:42 AM, Richard Barnes <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Scott, I think you may be over-stating things a bit.  The IETF doesn't get to make universal statements that apply to things out of its remit.  For example, there are numerous research conferences that are held on IETF-related technologies -- often with a specific focus on providing helpful input to IETF! -- which are not held under note well.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The location of such meetings alongside IETF meetings does not change this fact.  AFAICT, ANRW is not covered by Note Well, despite having the explicit goal of "transition[ing] research back into IETF".
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The definition of Contribution in 8179 makes this clear from the start:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> """
>>>>>> "Contribution": any submission to the IETF ...
>>>>>> """
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 7:27 AM Adrian Farrel <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>>>>> Thanks Scott, that's helpful.
>>>>>> A
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Scott O. Bradner <[e-mail]> 
>>>>>> Sent: 21 July 2019 11:24
>>>>>> To: Adrian Farrel <[e-mail]>
>>>>>> Cc: IETF Rinse Repeat <[e-mail]>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Applying "Note Well" to side meetings
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> speaking as co-editor of the ruleset
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> see the definition of “Contribution” in RFC 8179
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> basically, the “note well” applies whenever activities that are "intended to 
>>>>>> affect the IETF Standards Process” may happen
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jul 20, 2019, at 3:18 PM, Adrian Farrel <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Normally [1] when we have a "bar BoF" (also known as a "side meeting") we do
>>>>>>> not apply the terms of the "Note Well" [2]. We have usually considered bar
>>>>>>> BoFs to be outside the IETF because the IETF has no control over who meets
>>>>>>> and drinks.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> However, this time around, the side meetings are somewhat more formal with
>>>>>>> room bookings and projectors and advertisements and so on.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> So, does the Note Well apply to these side meetings?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Apologies if I missed an email on this: I sometimes don't focus as much as I
>>>>>>> should.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Adrian
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> [1] For some practical definition of "normal"
>>>>>>> [2] https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Read some fairy stories for adults of all ages
>>>>>>> .. Tales from the Wood
>>>>>>> .. More Tales from the Wood
>>>>>>> .. Tales from Beyond the Wood
>>>>>>> .. Tales from the Castle
>>>>>>> Get them on line https://www.feedaread.com/profiles/8604/
>>>>>>> Or buy a signed copy from me by post
>>>>>>> *** Stop me in the corridor at IETF-105 to get a copy ***
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Colin Perkins
>>> https://csperkins.org/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Colin Perkins
> https://csperkins.org/
> 
> 
> 
>