Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage

Peter Constable <petercon@microsoft.com> Fri, 16 May 2008 14:10 UTC

Return-Path: <ltru-bounces@ietf.org>
X-Original-To: ltru-archive@megatron.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A761428C1E3; Fri, 16 May 2008 07:10:28 -0700 (PDT)
X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9B8428C1EF for <ltru@core3.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 May 2008 07:10:25 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -10.539
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.539 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.060, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2qMoL5CWXRMY for <ltru@core3.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 May 2008 07:10:21 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (mailc.microsoft.com [131.107.115.214]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B228C28C1F1 for <ltru@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 May 2008 07:10:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from tk1-exhub-c104.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.46.188) by TK5-EXGWY-E803.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.169) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.240.5; Fri, 16 May 2008 07:10:15 -0700
Received: from NA-EXMSG-C117.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.62.44]) by tk1-exhub-c104.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.46.188]) with mapi; Fri, 16 May 2008 07:10:12 -0700
From: Peter Constable <petercon@microsoft.com>
To: Doug Ewell <doug@ewellic.org>, LTRU Working Group <ltru@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 07:10:11 -0700
Thread-Topic: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage
Thread-Index: Aci3JsQR79pXsZVBSjCDjtvmPhwOZgANuV+w
Message-ID: <DDB6DE6E9D27DD478AE6D1BBBB83579562E143D665@NA-EXMSG-C117.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
References: <mailman.494.1210865385.5128.ltru@ietf.org> <00a901c8b6f5$c04529a0$e6f5e547@DGBP7M81>
In-Reply-To: <00a901c8b6f5$c04529a0$e6f5e547@DGBP7M81>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
acceptlanguage: en-US
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage
X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list <ltru.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru>, <mailto:ltru-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/pipermail/ltru>
List-Post: <mailto:ltru@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ltru-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru>, <mailto:ltru-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org

> From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> Doug Ewell


> > - where content written in an encompassed language is also
> > understandable in the predominant language (that being a distinct
> > language encompassed by the same macrolanguage), the content could
> > also be tagged with the macrolanguage identifier. Thus if a Cantonese
> > passage is understandable if read as Mandarin, it could also be
> tagged
> > with "zh", or where a Tajiki Arabic passage is also understandable in
> > Standard Arabic it could be tagged with "ar".
>
> Cantonese "is a" Chinese, it falls under the Chinese macrolanguage
> umbrella, and therefore it could legitimately be tagged with "zh"
> whether or not it is understandable if read as Mandarin.
>
> Unfortunately, this wording takes us back to the mindset that Chinese =
> Mandarin = "zh", and other Chinese languages are not "zh".  I thought
> we
> had just agreed not to do that.

Well, you demonstrate that it evidently reads that way, though it's not quite saying that: this is a exception to the general recommendation. In general, we would not recommend that people tag Cantonese content as "zh", although they certainly can. The situation in which it's *most* reasonable to tag Cantonese content "zh" is when it is understandable to those that read Mandarin -- meaning it's understandable by the vast majority.

Do you only have a critique? Did you not find the overall text useful enough to even consider suggestions for how to improve? Overall, was it of no value?


Peter
_______________________________________________
Ltru mailing list
Ltru@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru