Re: [Manycouches] many-fine-dinners --- a view on how to organize virtual meetings

Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Tue, 24 November 2020 22:36 UTC

Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: manycouches@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: manycouches@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03B393A0E5E for <manycouches@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 14:36:20 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: 0.648
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.648 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD=1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JjXwbiRhU4Ex for <manycouches@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 14:36:18 -0800 (PST)
Received: from oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7A4483A0E58 for <manycouches@ietf.org>; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 14:36:18 -0800 (PST)
Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id 0AOMaGug030828 for <manycouches@ietf.org>; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 23:36:16 +0100
Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 9D846207836 for <manycouches@ietf.org>; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 23:36:16 +0100 (CET)
Received: from muguet2-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr (muguet2-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.13]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93E3D2077C6 for <manycouches@ietf.org>; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 23:36:16 +0100 (CET)
Received: from [10.11.244.24] ([10.11.244.24]) by muguet2-sys.intra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id 0AOMaF9o022137 for <manycouches@ietf.org>; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 23:36:16 +0100
To: manycouches@ietf.org
References: <160288855079.14008.13967692974159638979@ietfa.amsl.com> <30344.1602894208@localhost> <FD995870-E9C6-4099-93AF-253F0A11F56B@tzi.org> <CADaq8jcKK5kUvU3v7+6gEaeqjqxtw-Bii5is_hoq1ugogCoWPg@mail.gmail.com> <20201017193610.GA39170@kduck.mit.edu> <12526.1602980594@localhost> <2f99a293-b2b1-498f-36af-36fd201e9e8d@joelhalpern.com> <15451.1603056956@localhost> <2a305ee7-7511-f74d-fd7b-93ff8641c451@joelhalpern.com> <17295.1603123341@localhost> <228dbe14-2362-7374-bf1c-768c6ada7a3f@joelhalpern.com> <5926.1603128427@localhost> <a11e38fd-7d21-112c-fbe9-dc4b699ca5fe@joelhalpern.com> <13688.1604619321@localhost> <E441A975-F3E0-4011-86E5-AAC7494EBE31@cisco.com> <CAM4esxQdW2N=NAwgGpJKc3Q9xdyDRG1K-R=75vK7wi2tUO9btQ@mail.gmail.com> <32537.1605850657@localhost> <4554.1606103230@localhost> <1558268049.4567.1606130331589@appsuite-gw2.open-xchange.com>
From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7abe7f20-33c2-51f2-1f0b-64f7f1ec2e81@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 23:36:15 +0100
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.5.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <1558268049.4567.1606130331589@appsuite-gw2.open-xchange.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Language: fr
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/manycouches/0IfGKMCDvkXOft8-JCxlG6bbW2s>
Subject: Re: [Manycouches] many-fine-dinners --- a view on how to organize virtual meetings
X-BeenThere: manycouches@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "List is a design team list to identify issues that would arise should an IETF meeting ever be held with O\(1000\) 'remote' participants." <manycouches.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/manycouches>, <mailto:manycouches-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/manycouches/>
List-Post: <mailto:manycouches@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:manycouches-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manycouches>, <mailto:manycouches-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 22:36:20 -0000


Le 23/11/2020 à 12:18, Vittorio Bertola a écrit :
> 
> 
>> Il 23/11/2020 04:47 Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> ha 
>> scritto:
>> 
[...]
> and I don't see any easy way to avoid this, except getting back to 
> physical meetings.

I agree and f2f meetings will be back some day.

But I want to mention that, for me, even at f2f IETF meetings I had to
wake up at night or so to keep up remotely with meetings at my origin
place.

Overall, for me, after trying entirely remote experiences and entirely 
f2f experiences, I think the IETF meeting is very consuming.  This 
exhaustion is independent of being remote or f2f.  I need one week 
recovery after the meeting even if it was a virtual meeting.

That is a good point, IMHO, about virtual meetings.  It means, for me, 
that virtual meetings might be as effective as the f2f.  Or at least it 
means that the effort spent is the same.

On another hand, I can say that during the f2f meetings I was doing much 
more exercising than during the virtual meetings.  I did lots of 
additional walking during f2fs but zero exercising during virtual 
meetings.  Now the next WG meeting is a click away, not steps away.

Moreover, we had an email list ietf-runners that did see some activity 
during f2f meetings.  But zero activity when IETF is virtual.

During the virtual meetings, some people did use the expression of 
getting in the pink box, but that was just an image.  If we had a sort 
of a conveyor belt (tapis roulant, fr.) to walk on, or even to stand on, 
before taking the mic, maybe it would be good.)

Alex