Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points?
Marshall Eubanks <tme@multicasttech.com> Tue, 08 May 2007 20:11 UTC
Return-path: <ram-bounces@iab.org>
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HlW1e-0001cP-JX; Tue, 08 May 2007 16:11:10 -0400
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HlW1d-0001cK-EI for ram@iab.org; Tue, 08 May 2007 16:11:09 -0400
Received: from lennon.multicasttech.com ([63.105.122.7] helo=multicasttech.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HlW1b-0005eP-5M for ram@iab.org; Tue, 08 May 2007 16:11:09 -0400
Received: from [63.105.122.7] (account marshall_eubanks HELO [IPv6:::1]) by multicasttech.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 6580337; Tue, 08 May 2007 16:11:06 -0400
In-Reply-To: <8F47F550-6224-4AFF-8359-CBA98D3F2FAB@muada.com>
References: <8F47F550-6224-4AFF-8359-CBA98D3F2FAB@muada.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; delsp="yes"; format="flowed"
Message-Id: <6ABCF5DC-C1B9-4F9E-BED0-FC5F4722F6E8@multicasttech.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Marshall Eubanks <tme@multicasttech.com>
Subject: Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points?
Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 16:11:01 -0400
To: Iljitsch van Beijnum <iljitsch@muada.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3)
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: f607d15ccc2bc4eaf3ade8ffa8af02a0
Cc: ram@iab.org
X-BeenThere: ram@iab.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: Routing and Addressing Mailing List <ram.iab.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ram>, <mailto:ram-request@iab.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/ram>
List-Post: <mailto:ram@iab.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ram-request@iab.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ram>, <mailto:ram-request@iab.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: ram-bounces@iab.org
Dear Iljitsch; On May 8, 2007, at 12:52 PM, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote: > We basically have two choices for the mapping mechanism: work on- > demand and cache the result for some time, or flood everything > ahead of time. Both approaches are problematic: caches are > vulnerable to sudden changes in the mix of destinations in the > traffic, and there is a delay between the moment routing > information is needed and the moment it becomes available. Then > again, BGP shows that flooding everything everywhere isn't so great > when you can't control the size or volatility of the underlying data. > > An analogy in the real world: large stores carry very many items by > way of many distributors. Rather than have every store maintain a > direct relationship with every vendor and suffer a huge information > explosion on both ends, there is stuff in the middle that handles > distribution so each vendor and each store only deals with a > limited number of other organizations. > > Something like that may be useful in our problem space, too. The > way I imagine this is by having rendezvous points where the > reachability information for subsets of the network comes together. > For instance, as a large ISP, I could have a small number of > routers handle a certain /8 out of IPv4 space. All the other > routers route their traffic for this prefix to the closest one of > the rendezvous routers in question. These then forward the traffic > as per more specific routing information if possible, or > encapsulate it if necessary. > Of course, with RP's come the issue of RP discovery - how do I know where the RPs are in your /8 ? In IPv6 multicast, the so-called embedded RP concept (RFC 3956) has worked fairly well, where the address of the RP is embedded directly in the multicast addresses. Unless DNS is going to do, I think that something like this should IMO be built into any future RP schemes. Regards Marshall > The rendezvous point is where traffic and routing information all > come together. > > Compared to an on-demand model, this has the advantage that there > are no delays and no caching issues. Compared to a flooding model, > it has the advantage that the full specific information is only > required in relatively few places. This can work with both a very > small number of very large routers, or a much larger number of much > smaller routers, as long as the aggregate capacity in routing table > size and bandwidth is adequate. > > The downside is that not having the same information available > throughout an AS increases operational and/or protocol complexity. > > _______________________________________________ > RAM mailing list > RAM@iab.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ram _______________________________________________ RAM mailing list RAM@iab.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ram
- [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Iljitsch van Beijnum
- RE: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Dave Thaler
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Dino Farinacci
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Tony Li
- RE: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Dave Thaler
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Tony Li
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Yakov Rekhter
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Marshall Eubanks
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? David Conrad
- RE: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Dave Thaler
- RE: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Dave Thaler
- RE: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Dave Thaler
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Marshall Eubanks
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Dino Farinacci
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Dino Farinacci
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Tony Li
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Tony Li
- RE: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Dave Thaler
- RE: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Templin, Fred L
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Tony Li
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? David Conrad
- RE: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Dave Thaler
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Spencer Dawkins
- RE: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Dave Thaler
- RE: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Templin, Fred L
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Ted Hardie
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Eliot Lear
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Eliot Lear
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Marshall Eubanks
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? David Conrad
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Eliot Lear
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? David Conrad
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Eliot Lear
- RE: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Templin, Fred L
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Tony Li
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Ted Hardie
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Eliot Lear
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? David Conrad
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? David Conrad
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Ted Hardie
- [RAM] Re: The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Lars Eggert
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? David Conrad
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Lars Eggert
- [RAM] Re: The mapping problem: rendezvous points? David Conrad
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? David Conrad
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Lars Eggert
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Dino Farinacci
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Dino Farinacci
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Eliot Lear
- first-packet loss without state, case ARP [Re: [R… Pekka Savola
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? JUAN-JOSE.ADAN
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Eliot Lear
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Lars Eggert
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Dino Farinacci
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Lars Eggert
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Spencer Dawkins
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Lars Eggert
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Gert Doering
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Tony Li
- Manual network access logins (Was: Re: [RAM] The … Jari Arkko
- Re: Manual network access logins (Was: Re: [RAM] … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Manual network access logins (Was: Re: [RAM] … Jari Arkko
- Re: Manual network access logins (Was: Re: [RAM] … Tony Li
- Re: Manual network access logins (Was: Re: [RAM] … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Manual network access logins (Was: Re: [RAM] … Jari Arkko
- Re: Manual network access logins (Was: Re: [RAM] … Leslie Daigle
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Noel Chiappa
- RE: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? louise.burness
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Dino Farinacci
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Noel Chiappa
- Re: [RAM] The mapping problem: rendezvous points? Dino Farinacci