Re: [rtcweb] Is there room for a compromise? what about no MTI?

David Singer <singer@apple.com> Fri, 20 December 2013 17:26 UTC

Return-Path: <singer@apple.com>
X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E00BE1AE055 for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 20 Dec 2013 09:26:14 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.933
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.933 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_12=2.059, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.437, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.538, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_REMOTE_IMAGE=0.01] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N3hVx-kpSIEQ for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 20 Dec 2013 09:26:13 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-out.apple.com (crispin.apple.com [17.151.62.50]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C0B91ADFFB for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Fri, 20 Dec 2013 09:26:13 -0800 (PST)
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_3rQhftzfH5S6PoNwnWlP2w)"
Received: from relay2.apple.com ([17.128.113.67]) by mail-out.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7u4-23.01 (7.0.4.23.0) 64bit (built Aug 10 2011)) with ESMTP id <0MY400DM08EXVRN1@mail-out.apple.com> for rtcweb@ietf.org; Fri, 20 Dec 2013 09:26:11 -0800 (PST)
X-AuditID: 11807143-b7fbb6d00000049d-f4-52b47db2dfd2
Received: from spicerack.apple.com (spicerack.apple.com [17.128.115.40]) (using TLS with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by relay2.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with SMTP id DF.2B.01181.2BD74B25; Fri, 20 Dec 2013 09:26:11 -0800 (PST)
Received: from singda.apple.com (singda.apple.com [17.197.32.11]) by spicerack.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7u4-24.01(7.0.4.24.0) 64bit (built Nov 17 2011)) with ESMTPSA id <0MY4007108FM5810@spicerack.apple.com> for rtcweb@ietf.org; Fri, 20 Dec 2013 09:26:10 -0800 (PST)
From: David Singer <singer@apple.com>
Message-id: <D5B39658-5766-4C5B-9090-8E8EDC4BCFA6@apple.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 09:26:10 -0800
References: <CABcZeBNx5wpKDgd6TgA9U3_nxEKXdCsXpo8Kp663yQ6e_iN9vQ@mail.gmail.com> <20131215075757.GB3245@audi.shelbyville.oz> <52AE54F8.5070300@bbs.darktech.org> <CABcZeBNqE25O+BNLboXDrJ1ypp26uRAw8ehwtyor9gJccpuzGw@mail.gmail.com> <52AE759C.7020209@bbs.darktech.org> <CABcZeBMjTGs41t7y=xvaLdn4i63HxC2YQUkrd-itq=VkuKvpTA@mail.gmail.com> <52AE9129.8090702@bbs.darktech.org> <CABcZeBPOxqa2YQxOrTp9sVF-tQrpg-Kn=CbazBXOx_9dajhUZA@mail.gmail.com> <52AE9E0C.9060707@bbs.darktech.org> <20131216170820.GD82971@verdi> <20131220113631.GA70585@verdi> <52B47196.6060400@bbs.darktech.org>
To: rtcweb@ietf.org
In-reply-to: <52B47196.6060400@bbs.darktech.org>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1827)
X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrGLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUi2FCsobu5dkuQwckPzBZr/7WzOzB6LFny kymAMYrLJiU1J7MstUjfLoErY/ela0wFZ28zVxxd3MPYwPjzDHMXIyeHhICJxNPWvWwQtpjE hXvrgWwuDiGByUwS7YvuMYEkhARWAzkXfUBsNgFViQdzjjF2MXJwMAskSbx+kgVi8grYSBz7 4QRSwSugJ7Fx3myw8cICHhJHj19kASlhAep8fkcIYvpFFolVL/pZQGpEBIQltr7qBdvEKWAg 0dt7jh2kXkJAVmL+6dIJjHyzEHbNQrIAxGYW0JZYtvA1lG0g8bTzFStEeZHE7/k2mEr0Jd68 m8MEYStKTOl+yA5hm0u8X7IJynaVWDSvjRXCtpFovLiPcQEj9ypGgaLUnMRKI73EgoKcVL3k /NxNjOAYKHTewXhsmdUhRgEORiUe3oLoLUFCrIllxZW5hxhVgEY82rD6AqMUS15+XqqSCO/m TKA0b0piZVVqUX58UWlOavEhRmkOFiVx3pPOm4KEBNITS1KzU1MLUotgskwcnFINjDmcUT/u cOov1y1lTfgc9PkE60Q1nXQbne0vN/v7XjL3SJbg8ZS9PevkKY57kxRFlBnLmNfxcPjytn2p 9m1cZHty1YqKKY90V713arvlEfqJb31M4Z4Xu50O6u2I0TERvMw9/TLPzW/T/3KH3Nrxdp+j 3Kcj8ccnqhQLZ2cc3PrQS09B0tfLRYmlOCPRUIu5qDgRAJ7gF+qJAgAA
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Is there room for a compromise? what about no MTI?
X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list <rtcweb.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/>
List-Post: <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 17:26:15 -0000

There are some things to be said for no MTI:

* (we have had this in 3GPP): once something is mandatory, it’s hard to un-mandate it.  “what about backward compatibility with older systems?”.  3GPP is taking many years to move H.263 from mandated to recommended to optional.  the world moves on, and mandates stay.
* it is functionally equivalent to an MTI that is not respected (and more honest)
* there are audio-only devices (anyone remember those things called ‘telephones’?)
* and finally: Santa is not allowed to use video (FAA ruling, it seems, sad), and videophones in cars may one day be frowned on

Happy hols, everyone



David Singer
Multimedia and Software Standards, Apple Inc.