Re: [stir] current draft charter

I agree, you may find exceptions in Europe as well more in the short number category though (eg 118 series used as a brand), but they're just that, an exception. 

Philippe Fouquart
Orange Labs Networks
+33 (0) 1 45 29 58 13

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Shockey [mailto:richard@shockey.us] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 5:06 PM
To: FOUQUART Philippe OLNC/OLN; 'Henning Schulzrinne'; 'Peterson, Jon'
Cc: stir@ietf.org; dcrocker@bbiw.net
Subject: RE: [stir] current draft charter

-----Original Message-----
From: stir-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:stir-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
philippe.fouquart@orange.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 8:55 AM
To: Henning Schulzrinne; Peterson, Jon
Cc: stir@ietf.org; dcrocker@bbiw.net
Subject: Re: [stir] current draft charter

FWIW, this notion of ownership of E.164 resources has indeed always been
distinct of that of assignment. E.164 is actually governed by the
overarching principles of E.190, which on this says that "assignment confers
use of the resource but does not imply ownership by the assignee". 

In numbering plans I'm familiar with, this principle translates into an
article in all NRA assignment rulings stating that the assignment doesn't
confer the right to protect a number as a trademark for instance. Or some
limitations in time and transfer under conditions. 
[RS> ] 
[RS> ]  In general you are right though there are some odd corner cases.
Specifically the free phone number ranges 800 and 8XX ranges in the US and
Canada.

Although people sometimes like using ownership as a shortcut, it's more of a
right of use really. (I'm sure some here will remember discussions on the
notion of carrier of record with eye-watering nostalgia) 

[RS> ] <sigh> I wouldn't call it nostalgia,  more a review of the battle
scars and the cumulative effects of cranial concussion. 

Philippe Fouquart
Orange Labs Networks
+33 (0) 1 45 29 58 13

-----Original Message-----
From: stir-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:stir-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
Henning Schulzrinne
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 4:22 AM
To: Peterson, Jon
Cc: stir@ietf.org; dcrocker@bbiw.net
Subject: Re: [stir] current draft charter

I've been trying diligently to avoid any ownership terminology - if they
have any similarity to IP-related things, it's probably much more like IP
addresses: you have to show need and you can't always take them with you.
(For landline, it's *local* number portability. If you obtained a 212
number, you can't get a landline in LA with that number, at least at the
moment. You can't request a specific number, even if it is available, etc.)

On Jun 17, 2013, at 1:46 PM, Peterson, Jon wrote:
> 
> You may know more about number portability than me, but I don't agree 
> with your assessment of it here. At best, I'd say that number 
> portability in America allows consumers to choose which carrier "owns" 
> a number. This is also a reason I keep putting scare quotes around 
> "owns," because the assumptions of the DNS don't apply to users of 
> telephone numbers, at least not in our current regulatory environment. 
> If you are a registrant, you have the authority to configure your zone 
> - that sounds close enough to be ownership to me (even though the UDRP 
> or ICE can end your ownership under extreme conditions). If you have a 
> telephone number assigned to you, a carrier still decides what number it
rings.

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