Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and databases
Hadriel Kaplan <hadriel.kaplan@oracle.com> Tue, 18 June 2013 17:36 UTC
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From: Hadriel Kaplan <hadriel.kaplan@oracle.com>
In-Reply-To: <CDE4E69C.21E90%jon.peterson@neustar.biz>
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 13:36:18 -0400
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To: "Peterson, Jon" <jon.peterson@neustar.biz>
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Cc: "stir@ietf.org" <stir@ietf.org>, Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
Subject: Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and databases
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On Jun 17, 2013, at 8:47 PM, "Peterson, Jon" <jon.peterson@neustar.biz> wrote: > > Definitely I agree that there needs to be a root here, at least at the > national level. A few people have commented that working from the national > level makes more sense than trying to delegate something globally from on > high. Choosing that scope could make it harder to guarantee your vision of > a tariff-free identity, admittedly. I've name-dropped LoST a couple times > here as a place to look for inspiration, perhaps. I read LoST a long time ago, and skimmed it again today, but I don't get any inspiration relative to STIR. What dots am I supposed to be connecting? No need for a long explanation, just some hints would be good. :) > But at the end of the day I was also envisioning that this revisited > identity system would still work for regular domain names per RFC4474, and > that we'd probably even keep CID as an option for Identity-Info (or its > successor). So I was anticipating there'd be diversity in the means by > which credentials could be indicated by Identity-Info, and that having a > "root" wouldn't be exclusive in that there are identifiers other than > telephone numbers in the system too. Right, so I was thinking about that too, if we were to use a DNS-based approach (or anything with a derived URL). I think that's still possible even for email-style names. For example, when receiving a request from 'alice@foo.com' we could do a DNS lookup for '_cid.foo.com' or some such pre-defined naming scheme, to get the caller-id cert for 'foo.com'; or the RR for that DNS key could redirect us to somewhere else if need be. Or we could do an HTTP automatically for 'http://foo.com/cid', or even 'http://foo.com/cid/ldkjhlashl' where the last part is a hash of the username. Or if we want the signer to be able to specify different certs for different requests, we support including a small token that gets appended to the automatic DNS or URL scheme for cert retrieval. For example up to a 16-character token. The only reason to limit its size would be to possibly get it (along with the signature and other info) through PSTN links in a UUI or whatever, but if we don't care about that for the email-style name cases then we could continue using the Identity-Info header for that case. I recognize the nice property of Identity-Info giving the URL was the cert could be hosted somewhere else, separate from the From's domain. > So again, to the question of how golden the root is, I at least pictured a > national-level root for telephone number identity that would, if at all > possible, eliminate the problem of multiple trust anchors issuing > credentials for the same identity. Right so I think we're all on the same page for that then. :) > Just like the same cert could be > included by CID or referred to by HTTP, though, I imagine there could be > more than one protocol for getting at those credentials. I'm ok with specifying multiple protocols for accessing it - I mean that'll probably happen anyway (my company's products support half a dozen different ones to access routing DBs, for example) - but I think there needs to be one that's mandatory-to-implement, to get interoperability. Even if we believe *only* carriers will be the ones to query for STIR certs, many carriers buy products from multiple vendors they need to interoperate. Even the ones that buy the SIP-based equipment from only one vendor, often get the databases (or access to a separately managed one) from someone else. > As for whether or not we need NPAC-style databases - agreed that here we > don't need most of the data that's in them (like, LRNs aren't obviously > material to solving our problem), but the authority structures they > reflect are absolutely integral to this. Ultimately, STIR proposes only to > project onto the Internet the authority over numbers that is today > administered in those databases. Yup. As I said, it would help a heck of a lot to get this into the NPAC-type databases. :) -hadriel
- [stir] current draft charter Peterson, Jon
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Stephen Farrell
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Peterson, Jon
- Re: [stir] current draft charter philippe.fouquart
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Wilhelm Wimmreuter
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Stephen Farrell
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Dave Crocker
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Dave Crocker
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Peterson, Jon
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Peterson, Jon
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Dan York
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Dave Crocker
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Dave Crocker
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Peterson, Jon
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Brian Rosen
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Peterson, Jon
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Dave Crocker
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Dan York
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Wendt, Chris
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Brian Rosen
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Richard Shockey
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Wendt, Chris
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Richard Shockey
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Brian Rosen
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Richard Shockey
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Peterson, Jon
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Peterson, Jon
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Richard Shockey
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Brian Rosen
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Richard Shockey
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Dave Crocker
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Peterson, Jon
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Dave Crocker
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [stir] current draft charter DOLLY, MARTIN C
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Dave Crocker
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Dave Crocker
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Peterson, Jon
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Peterson, Jon
- Re: [stir] current draft charter DOLLY, MARTIN C
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Peterson, Jon
- Re: [stir] current draft charter DOLLY, MARTIN C
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Dave Crocker
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Peterson, Jon
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Dave Crocker
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Peterson, Jon
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Peterson, Jon
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Peterson, Jon
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Dave Crocker
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Michael Hammer
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Richard Shockey
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Richard Shockey
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Dave Crocker
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Dave Crocker
- [stir] Nature vs. nurture -- semantics vs. encodi… Dave Crocker
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Dan York
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Michael Hammer
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Hadriel Kaplan
- [stir] Not just "called party" - Re: current draf… Dan York
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Peterson, Jon
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Michael Hammer
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Peterson, Jon
- Re: [stir] Not just "called party" - Re: current … Michael Hammer
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Richard Shockey
- Re: [stir] current draft charter DOLLY, MARTIN C
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Michael Hammer
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Dave Crocker
- Re: [stir] Not just "called party" - Re: current … Peterson, Jon
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Peterson, Jon
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Michael Hammer
- Re: [stir] Not just "called party" - Re: current … Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Dan York
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Michael Hammer
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [stir] Not just "called party" - Re: current … Dan York
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Richard Shockey
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Peterson, Jon
- Re: [stir] Not just "called party" - Re: current … Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [stir] current draft charter philippe.fouquart
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Richard Shockey
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Richard Shockey
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Dave Crocker
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Michael Hammer
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Richard Barnes
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Dave Crocker
- Re: [stir] current draft charter philippe.fouquart
- Re: [stir] current draft charter philippe.fouquart
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Brian Rosen
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Wendt, Chris
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Michael Hammer
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Peterson, Jon
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Dave Crocker
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Richard Shockey
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Peterson, Jon
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Lee, Yiu
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Michael Hammer
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Dave Crocker
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Lee, Yiu
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Lee, Yiu
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Wendt, Chris
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Peterson, Jon
- Re: [stir] current draft charter - ENUM and datab… Lee, Yiu
- Re: [stir] current draft charter Wilhelm Wimmreuter