Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend?
Joe Touch <touch@ISI.EDU> Sat, 29 September 2007 21:21 UTC
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Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 14:20:37 -0700
From: Joe Touch <touch@ISI.EDU>
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To: "Mitesh Dalal (mdalal)" <mdalal@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend?
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Mitesh Dalal (mdalal) wrote: > FWIW, I think we need to address the fundamentals first, as echoed by > Lars, Tim and your truly > some time back. i.e. are we labeling this changes as updates to rfc793 ? > Will we clearly state > (if the document proceeds to standards track) to state "Updates: 793" > in the title of the document ? > OR > > are we looking it as an additional protocol that can be added/embedded > to TCP (although there is no handshake to signal this understanding > between the TCP peers to distinctly picture this as an option, > but a small protocol nevertheless) and does not necessarily update the > base spec ? Whether this is a small change or not is irrelevant to whether it updates TCP's rules for handling segments. All modifications to TCP segment processing events update 793 - whether they are standards track or experimental. An "additional protocol" could not change any TCP headers, TCP endpoint state, *or* TCP segment handling events. I remain confused at this sort of question coming up at all. If this is not a change to TCP, at the very least it is being discussed in the wrong working group. Joe >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Mark Allman [mailto:mallman@icir.org] >> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 5:24 PM >> To: Anantha Ramaiah (ananth) >> Cc: tcpm@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? >> >> >>> In the last meeting in Chicago, it was pointed out the only pending >>> issue is the "strength of the mitigations". 3 choices were listed, >>> people picked the choices ( Careful not to use the "vote" since you >>> don't seem to like it :-), So I would think the next step >> is to pick >>> on whichever choice comes up as popular and move on. I for >> one don't >>> see anything wrong with that approach. >>> >>> Atleast I am missing as to what would constitute a "rough >> consensus" ? >> >> First, it isn't me that doesn't like the word "vote". It is >> the IETF that doesn't take "votes". Taking "votes" is >> problematic. Take a look at some of the IETF process >> documents, the Tao of the IETF, etc. These explain why there >> are not votes within the IETF and the rationale behind the >> consensus process. >> >> It seems to me that in this case it is clear that the WG is >> not generally of one mind (i.e., come to consensus), with a >> non-trivial number of folks wanting MAYs, SHOULDs and and/or >> some combination (via picking some MAYs and some SHOULDs or >> using conditionals or whatever). >> If you can show us that we're reading this wrong and that in >> fact these folks are outliers then please do. >> >> allman >> >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > tcpm mailing list > tcpm@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm
_______________________________________________ tcpm mailing list tcpm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm
- [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Mark Allman
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Joe Touch
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Fernando Gont
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Mark Allman
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Pekka Savola
- RE: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Agarwal, Anil
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Wesley Eddy
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? David Borman
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Lars Eggert
- RE: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Agarwal, Anil
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Ted Faber
- RE: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Anantha Ramaiah (ananth)
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Tom Petch
- RE: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Mitesh Dalal (mdalal)
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Mark Allman
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Tim Shepard
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Joe Touch
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Joe Touch
- RE: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Anantha Ramaiah (ananth)
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Joe Touch
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Joe Touch
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Tim Shepard
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Joe Touch
- RE: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Anantha Ramaiah (ananth)
- RE: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? toby.moncaster
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Joe Touch
- RE: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Anantha Ramaiah (ananth)
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Joe Touch
- RE: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Anantha Ramaiah (ananth)
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Joe Touch
- RE: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Anantha Ramaiah (ananth)
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Joe Touch
- RE: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Anantha Ramaiah (ananth)
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Joe Touch
- [tcpm] BTNS usage for BGP Pekka Savola
- [tcpm] Re: BTNS usage for BGP Joe Touch
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Mark Allman
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Mark Allman
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Mark Allman
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Mark Allman
- RE: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Anantha Ramaiah (ananth)
- RE: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Anantha Ramaiah (ananth)
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Mark Allman
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Mark Allman
- RE: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Anantha Ramaiah (ananth)
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Mark Allman
- RE: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Anantha Ramaiah (ananth)
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Joe Touch
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Joe Touch
- RE: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Anantha Ramaiah (ananth)
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Joe Touch
- RE: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Mitesh Dalal (mdalal)
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Joe Touch
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Mark Allman
- RE: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Anantha Ramaiah (ananth)
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Joe Touch
- RE: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Anantha Ramaiah (ananth)
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Mark Allman
- RE: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Anantha Ramaiah (ananth)
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Mark Allman
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Edward A. Gardner
- RE: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Mitesh Dalal (mdalal)
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Joe Touch
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Lars Eggert
- RE: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Anantha Ramaiah (ananth)
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Joe Touch
- RE: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Anantha Ramaiah (ananth)
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Joe Touch
- RE: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Anantha Ramaiah (ananth)
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Joe Touch
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Ted Faber
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Joe Touch
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Ted Faber
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Joe Touch
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Ted Faber
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? touch
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? touch
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Ted Faber
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Ted Faber
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Ted Faber
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Joe Touch
- Re: [tcpm] tcpsecure: how strong to recommend? Joe Touch