Re: [Cfrg] Requesting removal of CFRG co-chair

[Mike Simpson <[e-mail]>]

  I¹d rather have my
> competitor (or in this case the NSA) in the room to get whatever reading I
> can on their positions on our technical work.

That sounds quite similar to playing poker. 

>  We will always have to
> second guess the motives of individuals bringing work into our open forums.
> 

I don't think you have to second guess the motives of the NSA or any of its employees. If the co-chair wasn't comfortable with his employer deliberately undermining protocols recommended for  opsec then he could have got another job. 

Not seeing a major conflict of interest is worrying in itself. 

Mike

> Paul
> 
> Paul A. Lambert
> 
> 
> 
>> On 12/21/13, 3:29 PM, "Tao Effect" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Dec 21, 2013, at 6:17 PM, Tao Effect <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>> Should not the choice of an employer reflect on a person's competence?
>> 
>> Sorry, thinking a bit more about that question, I think the answer is
>> "no, not necessarily, but maybe in some circumstances."
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing
>> with the NSA.
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 21, 2013, at 5:37 PM, Hilarie Orman <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Take it as a challenge, is the IETF smarter than NSA or any other
>>>> organization with ulterior motives?  Can the IETF make sound technical
>>>> judgments based on written documents?
>>> 
>>> Speaking for myself only, an organization's ability to make sound
>>> ethical choices impacts my ability to take it seriously.
>>> 
>>> What sort of people does the IETF/CFRG place in positions of authority?
>>> 
>>> Those types of decisions play a significant role in defining what an
>>> organization is, and what it does.
>>> 
>>>> and choose leaders based on their competence and not on their
>>>> employment.
>>> 
>>> Should not the choice of an employer reflect on a person's competence?
>>> 
>>> Careful now, we're deadly close to reaching Godwin's Law. ;-P
>>> 
>>> - Greg
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also
>>> sharing with the NSA.
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 21, 2013, at 5:37 PM, Hilarie Orman <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Is the CFRG co-chair the only person in the CFRG who has associations,
>>>> proclaimed or covert, with an organization intent on undermining the
>>>> standards process?  I seriously doubt it.  Then why trust anything
>>>> from any part of the IETF?  Because it is an open process with input
>>>> from a worldwide community.  That open process provides the resilience
>>>> against attack.
>>>> 
>>>> Take it as a challenge, is the IETF smarter than NSA or any other
>>>> organization with ulterior motives?  Can the IETF make sound technical
>>>> judgments based on written documents?  If you don't believe this is
>>>> possible, then by all means, start the purges.  Otherwise, step up to
>>>> the plate, be part of the evaluation-on-the-merits process, and choose
>>>> leaders based on their competence and not on their employment.
>>>> 
>>>> Hilarie
>>>> 
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