Re: [dmarc-ietf] what to document about the tree walk
John R Levine <johnl@taugh.com> Thu, 14 July 2022 15:08 UTC
Return-Path: <johnl@taugh.com>
X-Original-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6339BC16ECBA for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 14 Jul 2022 08:08:30 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.107
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.107 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=iecc.com header.b=ePjc/kRH; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=taugh.com header.b=bn+BLit2
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DhpZD8cCnNgS for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 14 Jul 2022 08:08:25 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 26E3EC147930 for <dmarc@ietf.org>; Thu, 14 Jul 2022 08:07:58 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (qmail 29805 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2022 15:07:56 -0000
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type; s=746b.62d0314c.k2207; bh=oQsUnJ5gQ2pn4uQwRxOHtFo/1bBNJNmqJ8LceWUQ3Lw=; b=ePjc/kRHAXDubS+Tw1XRVhFb/5AmnXV+Dv7g/IxIWy37fWFCfYPdRDExECjOFWN+RPTXMlgQ/vvXrRSSfFOsI22CYFz5ybEMtA8WTc6XN3Xs5tWSoEW4XgPT2jpMdh78QR5GKP5BGQY1kappn2VIwG2YDPQxiacEoCU++3swrm29nH/Jl2/WfVP8kw/Osy966WLOs39u9Sgc/f8hyR4FJUjwJNT3UVEuxNn1vWDwDdJpmcg06oIc2O5zEx5l5ILzKFKHM0mvf7gDvfQT0YU+rvGAK0SzPEaD5DWDP2a/iu5JQ9RImzn/2ohKWIGMwzGb4VPVXZdZnChPSH38MIdnHw==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type; s=746b.62d0314c.k2207; bh=oQsUnJ5gQ2pn4uQwRxOHtFo/1bBNJNmqJ8LceWUQ3Lw=; b=bn+BLit2B+t27U86Ie//C/B7O6pVPLl5fkHrJ7pQbDFeopJJ5lannguT4X2b33Tlz6K9lyIqQ01zR6uMIFoKS+euoJ1QT7PoSprhHXpsf2wAIGSr8z9hYbQqZyJqYcW5vOMKt/KFUXyRfSKaxjK1KvoApITPelRxAAg5rLAMkoM1y5FKLkSZbQ8gX/mI93B4By4SQ/Z+UmjHlFNAYnSlNN4vYU6g4lEcV72WAq/oLZ5H6rR5A3WrRz4puf8lOUSckd1BFGuZhvP3XRGZIqDilDzeTdYKx0iE6qmWhz1+Rwm0/5avzzkFgrZ7IvNpzeUlxoDJ7dEl7qf+xn12jWZqYg==
Received: from ary.qy ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTPS (TLS1.3 ECDHE-RSA AES-256-GCM AEAD) via TCP6; 14 Jul 2022 15:07:56 -0000
Received: by ary.qy (Postfix, from userid 501) id 8267D45CF6C8; Thu, 14 Jul 2022 11:07:54 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ary.qy (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8BFC45CF6AA; Thu, 14 Jul 2022 11:07:54 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2022 11:07:54 -0400
Message-ID: <8683e2de-22bf-b6a2-dfa0-274b9de3ed23@taugh.com>
From: John R Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
To: Scott Kitterman <sklist@kitterman.com>, dmarc@ietf.org
X-X-Sender: johnl@ary.qy
In-Reply-To: <4293C636-9656-4122-80D6-5E2DE4D790B4@kitterman.com>
References: <20220710010547.DB3B04532F40@ary.qy> <d8716435-8a52-dac4-ede2-6c27fced7f0f@tana.it> <84DDA91C-26E2-4803-8C6C-0369ED67298F@kitterman.com> <c4a7fd03-eae8-497f-3133-73523a9c1ca2@tana.it> <5197ba5f-9de4-d838-1579-eae67683e2d4@taugh.com> <650cadee-db8f-a54a-4d14-082c2d0bed02@tana.it> <0f3a343b-e7ea-7509-ceab-e5670aac8616@taugh.com> <CAH48ZfxHgxZwu3zLh99pc1JS4s==9bxU-0nS78O=7UAnZ=DtUQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAHej_8nkpGo30b9-ZkRc_wokymJ2ry_hsMgzaB2m4EH-WWG_zw@mail.gmail.com> <CAH48ZfzoVocPRKeVTqf6AE6Z48AWKFObm7X5oDa1ic1sQ5V1zg@mail.gmail.com> <CAL0qLwZFO_KK3+RUdzMLyjW0uOnzi4mXcVww1Mqx8tmhe-x2hA@mail.gmail.com> <CAH48ZfwTaf75HiJS2_VJKez8s3FqMh-K_6eD2eqaJatXWwcKww@mail.gmail.com> <CAL0qLwbxoijfdfxpS5-LRPifxg+4e_ndBGQhne5s5of0zxBbMQ@mail.gmail.com> <D3807517-98C3-4F20-A594-F3109BCB831A@kitterman.com> <f5e3f92b-f95e-a3a5-c74d-bd0957bec61a@tana.it> <4293C636-9656-4122-80D6-5E2DE4D790B4@kitterman.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; format="flowed"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmarc/8StamNGE4i3SenEV6cO-8184Puw>
Subject: Re: [dmarc-ietf] what to document about the tree walk
X-BeenThere: dmarc@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting, and Compliance \(DMARC\)" <dmarc.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dmarc/>
List-Post: <mailto:dmarc@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2022 15:08:30 -0000
On Thu, 14 Jul 2022, Scott Kitterman wrote: > In my view, standardizing two ways to do policy discovery and alignment would be a substantial danger to interoperability and we'd be stuck with it approximately forever. I agree, it's a self-evidently terrible idea. "Temporary" transition periods inevitably turn out to be permanent, or so close to permanent that we'll all be dead before it's over. What I expect to happen is that we publish 7489bis with the tree walk as the method to find org domains*. There are a handful of widely used libraries that implmenent DMARC, most of which have developers who read this list or are otherwise people we know, so we can encourage them to update their software. Large providers like Google and Microsoft have their own implementations but we know them too. So over perhaps a year the places that upgrade their software will get new libraries and start to use the tree walk. There will always be a long tail of sites that never update their software, but that's life. Fortunately, for the majority of normal mail the old and new methods get the same result, so it's unlikely the long tail will run into problems any worse than they already have with the obsolete software they use, e.g. TLS 1.1 making STARTTLS fail. R's, John * and occasionally PSDs.
- [dmarc-ietf] "psd=" tag early assignment Barry Leiba
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] "psd=" tag early assignment Douglas Foster
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] "psd=" tag early assignment John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] "psd=" tag early assignment Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] "psd=" tag early assignment Barry Leiba
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] "psd=" tag early assignment Scott Kitterman
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] "psd=" tag early assignment Barry Leiba
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] "psd=" tag early assignment Douglas Foster
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] "psd=" tag early assignment Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] "psd=" tag early assignment John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] "psd=" tag early assignment Douglas Foster
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] "psd=" tag early assignment Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] "psd=" tag early assignment Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] "psd=" tag early assignment Barry Leiba
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] "psd=" tag early assignment John R Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] "psd=" tag early assignment Douglas Foster
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] "psd=" tag early assignment Barry Leiba
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] "psd=" tag early assignment Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] "psd=" tag early assignment Scott Kitterman
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] "psd=" tag early assignment John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] "psd=" tag early assignment Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] "psd=" tag early assignment Scott Kitterman
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] "psd=" tag early assignment John R Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] "psd=" tag early assignment Scott Kitterman
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] "psd=" tag early assignment Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] what to document about the tree … John R Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] "psd=" tag early assignment Douglas Foster
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] what to document about the tree … Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] what to document about the tree … John R Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] what to document about the tree … Douglas Foster
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] what to document about the tree … Todd Herr
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] what to document about the tree … Douglas Foster
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] what to document about the tree … John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] what to document about the tree … Scott Kitterman
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] what to document about the tree … Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] "psd=" tag early assignment Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] what to document about the tree … Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] what to document about the tree … Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] what to document about the tree … Douglas Foster
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] what to document about the tree … Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] what to document about the tree … Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] what to document about the tree … Scott Kitterman
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] what to document about the tree … Barry Leiba
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] what to document about the tree … John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] what to document about the tree … Douglas Foster
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] what to document about the tree … Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] what to document about the tree … Scott Kitterman
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] what to document about the tree … John R Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] what to document about the tree … Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] what to document about the tree … Dotzero
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] what to document about the tree … Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] PSDs still aren't important, aga… John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] what to document about the tree … John R. Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] what to document about the tree … Scott Kitterman
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] what to document about the tree … Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] PSDs still aren't important, aga… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] PSDs still aren't important, aga… John Levine