Re: [Idr] IETF LC for IDR-ish document <draft-ietf-grow-bgp-reject-05.txt> (Default EBGP Route Propagation Behavior Without Policies) to Proposed Standard

Job Snijders <> Fri, 21 April 2017 15:46 UTC

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Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 17:46:24 +0200
From: Job Snijders <>
To: Gert Doering <>
Cc: Robert Raszuk <>, "" <>, "" <>
Message-ID: <20170421154624.fxbtupcnthdmls3t@Vurt.local>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] IETF LC for IDR-ish document <draft-ietf-grow-bgp-reject-05.txt> (Default EBGP Route Propagation Behavior Without Policies) to Proposed Standard
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On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 05:37:41PM +0200, Gert Doering wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 05:19:28PM +0200, Robert Raszuk wrote:
> > Are we really that bad in Internet NOCs ? Do we need configuration
> > enforcement and RFCs like this ?
> Yes, and yes.
> Even if I cannot discern whether this was meant as rhetoric questions
> - the answer is still yes.  If you assume that 40.000 of those ASes
> have noone on-site who has any idea how BGP works, you are likely
> still too optimistic about the level of understanding out there.

Instead of blaming operators, I prefer we assign some work items to
vendors to motivate them to improve their software rather then acept
this scorn. I'd be careful to indulge Robert in his blatant disrespect
for the operational side of the internet.

So perhaps we can rephrase the rethorical question "Are we really that
bad in Internet NOCs" into "Are NOCs forced to work with poor user
interfaces, inconsistency across implementations, and insecure defaults?"
- Yes, they are. Vendors would do well to take same ownership.

Kind regards,