RE: Why we really can't use Facebook for technical discussion.

["Rob Wilton (rwilton)" <[e-mail]>]

Hi Lloyd,

Okay, I agree that all contributions to public github repositories are likely to come under the github community guidelines that you link to below, but I still disagree that IETF contributions are bound by the first Microsoft open-source specific policy that you linked to – since I do not regard the IETF (or Github) as a “Microsoft-managed open source community”.

Perhaps it would be helpful for someone to do an offline check on whether there is anything in the github-community-guidelines policy that conflicts with the IETF community guidelines – I’ll check with Jay and the IESG.  But at a high level, it scans as “be nice to your fellow humans” and seems reasonable to me.  Specifically, nothing in those guidelines jumps out at me as prohibiting or hindering our ability to have courteous technical discussions about Internet standards.

Regards,
Rob


From: Lloyd W <lloyd.wood=[e-mail]>
Sent: 09 June 2021 12:25
To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) <[e-mail]>
Cc: Lloyd W <[e-mail]>; Dean Willis <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technical discussion.

Rob,

simply put, that's the short version - based on, but often not needing to repeat, the more expansive GitHub policy version at

https://docs.github.com/en/github/site-policy/github-community-guidelines

-- which Microsoft manages, since Microsoft owns GitHub, so IETF use of GitHub falls under all of those Microsoft rules.

Lloyd Wood
[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>

and you haven't read that one either.


On 9 Jun 2021, at 20:29, Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton=[e-mail]<mailto:rwilton=[e-mail]>> wrote:

Hi Lloyd,

My reading of that code of conduct is that it only applies to Microsoft run open-source projects rather than all open-source projects hosted on Github.  I.e., I would not regard IETF work hosted on github as coming under the scope of that code of conduct.

I’ve not read the policy closely, but at a quick glance it also looks reasonable to me.

Regards,
Rob


From: ietf <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> On Behalf Of Lloyd W
Sent: 09 June 2021 04:53
To: Dean Willis <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Cc: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technical discussion.

It's worth pointing out that, as the IETF increases its reliance on Microsoft-owned github, and discussion moves more and more from IETF-managed mailing lists to git pull requests, IETF discussions become subject to Microsoft's own underlying social media rules. Git has now morphed from a complex command-line tool into a social network with, like, the worst interface ever, which makes it a natural fit with the computing vistas of Redmond.

https://microsoft.github.io/codeofconduct/

Still, good to know who runs things around here.
Lloyd Wood
[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>

now I really miss Myspace.



On 6 Jun 2021, at 10:02, Dean Willis <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:

But just a few weeks ago, we had a "tools" survey circulating, and several of the questions related to using assorted social media platforms for IETF work.

If you can get banned for a kill -9 comment -- well, we really can't be using that platform for IETF stuff. Even for jokes, apparently.