Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technical discussion.

Randy Presuhn <randy_presuhn@alumni.stanford.edu> Mon, 07 June 2021 16:42 UTC

Return-Path: <randy_presuhn@alumni.stanford.edu>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E51723A3E0A for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 7 Jun 2021 09:42:32 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.9
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rKriQv_r82dy for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 7 Jun 2021 09:42:27 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pl1-f175.google.com (mail-pl1-f175.google.com [209.85.214.175]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 76D103A3DE9 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Mon, 7 Jun 2021 09:42:27 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pl1-f175.google.com with SMTP id 69so9008539plc.5 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Mon, 07 Jun 2021 09:42:27 -0700 (PDT)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=uEK9ZHcz4kfNvud5zeUHD6GXIWEBEDkSqud3LVwwe/k=; b=Ev0nm5T6gUqoTCS4c7A7DX0h7ZxLg9HAgcn9PNsKCrXeE6pf/ioU4u4wKUvEVHI+0z P3OckNGg+4JyS7UDj6M5/ncJ1+lNiozJPFs9uoBoefZTqw3Z9fb0Vh5kwVM9fQW9ju2p AfSrzpuMpHZ6Mgt2ks6dZ2/0bzre0fUS5emLSUCtHkN3gob5fTkT2mYE5vzHzwx+WGB2 kGJH4rh3juUXrptx19cBBsqun4ExZ07bv+QM3VFDlNt6N/pDf6HKUhyZklxHx6aYu4Sz 6EBlqINF9+DfaRhIZ4GKQgTvYZpslEQqVhKOM/V659ekHw3PjrhuZz0Ebr4YYGd0wqN7 STvw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531Uwl0EucwTiXtlsC93Y/MAnHYSUt5IKmKG35g013zH+VNIyNoq h6KGcLtu/IyHRU5sNn25oTov6LGB4xvx5w==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJznjYwCO1HyecfOjdB99Hb7nHrY0Ifpt0pv7kNCkz7J9NCAGXs+OTeVylCLEKE6ty8v4EacXA==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:3004:: with SMTP id hg4mr58081pjb.12.1623084146712; Mon, 07 Jun 2021 09:42:26 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ?IPv6:2601:646:9300:791:3dd1:9a22:a8ba:3b5f? ([2601:646:9300:791:3dd1:9a22:a8ba:3b5f]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u21sm8729857pfh.163.2021.06.07.09.42.25 for <ietf@ietf.org> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 07 Jun 2021 09:42:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technical discussion.
To: ietf@ietf.org
References: <HJCFnRF4-BhmmY94naAXr7OwaHttkaKO4_PJx6u2V8ZyHKfo91h0wX96saMVs0sI6KM2vx-h6B-j1dGqj6XqneGrdw-smKRSp9LYfmYZGsg=@softarmor.com> <CALZ3u+a+ry4pd5eAB3QiboA2pwiVhTgc0D4Zte5_u+bj-GsonA@mail.gmail.com> <-Jo05E3w-YIEezoXLI6MpB83ZYosN9BemjreW0cpF-DKiwGfD1pdvjQNWNIRYKnfiqfQR46Ny1e5Ee2ppuMlGTLU1Jei_S4gcB1V9tc6YFI=@softarmor.com> <CAMm+LwgeZ787ae00+=fw8BP=n5OQ_TMsbtEeG16Zau=5O2Gxrg@mail.gmail.com> <4a05b42a-3ca5-0d13-0956-a66545906fe3@gih.com> <CAMm+Lwj1fB088mOULXOSDKf8LoCsUGbOSHNxfgoCws+VjfcO2A@mail.gmail.com> <1127625088.5911125.1623040315510@mail.yahoo.com> <d68ec897-1506-86e5-578d-41672bdffaef@network-heretics.com>
From: Randy Presuhn <randy_presuhn@alumni.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <d2dec2e3-b9f3-2530-f143-67bb01f35269@alumni.stanford.edu>
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2021 09:42:24 -0700
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <d68ec897-1506-86e5-578d-41672bdffaef@network-heretics.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/5fPlKrq3dMI6_gLCVIpttTwST_g>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2021 16:42:41 -0000

Hi -

On 2021-06-07 4:59 AM, Keith Moore wrote:
> On 6/7/21 12:31 AM, lloydwood@users.sourceforge.net wrote:
> 
>> Perhaps, if you're all proud of getting banned from Facebook, you 
>> might want to consider how you communicate more generally?
>>
>>
>> https://hackcur.io/whats-wrong-with-loud-men-talking-loudly-the-ietfs-culture-wars/ 
>>
> 
> Because misandry in the service of inclusion is no vice?

When (male) privilege is threatened, the reactions often look
like (male) fragility.  One would hope to avoid zero-sum games,
but I think one must admit the possibility that some stereotypical
(but hardly inherent!) behaviors are at odds with inclusiveness.
Having a particular genital configuration is not an issue.
Interrupting and talking over others (for example) can be.

Randy