Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technical discussion.
Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org> Sun, 06 June 2021 10:47 UTC
Return-Path: <chopps@chopps.org>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E9D03A15DC for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 6 Jun 2021 03:47:38 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.297
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.297 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_SBL=0.5, URIBL_SBL_A=0.1] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hYQnF3H2Hbrf for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 6 Jun 2021 03:47:33 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtp.chopps.org (smtp.chopps.org [54.88.81.56]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57E103A15D3 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sun, 6 Jun 2021 03:47:33 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ja.int.chopps.org.chopps.org (047-026-251-217.res.spectrum.com [47.26.251.217]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by smtp.chopps.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 72858811A0; Sun, 6 Jun 2021 10:47:32 +0000 (UTC)
References: <HJCFnRF4-BhmmY94naAXr7OwaHttkaKO4_PJx6u2V8ZyHKfo91h0wX96saMVs0sI6KM2vx-h6B-j1dGqj6XqneGrdw-smKRSp9LYfmYZGsg=@softarmor.com> <E1920BE6-34CA-4246-8424-928EC0BA77B7@puck.nether.net> <010801d75a97$04e30f70$0ea92e50$@acm.org> <CAPvvaaLXo8G8HrHuiU77HtrbR43ZCnprAPCOPGdC8SL2Yi1e5g@mail.gmail.com>
User-agent: mu4e 1.5.13; emacs 27.2
From: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>
To: Emil Ivov <emil@jitsi.org>
Cc: Larry Masinter <LMM@acm.org>, Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net>, Dean Willis <dean.willis@softarmor.com>, ietf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technical discussion.
Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2021 06:42:00 -0400
In-reply-to: <CAPvvaaLXo8G8HrHuiU77HtrbR43ZCnprAPCOPGdC8SL2Yi1e5g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <m2tumbfex7.fsf@ja.int.chopps.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg="pgp-sha512"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/iUDhSR-lI9OsK1g0qJgamD5hmUs>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2021 10:47:39 -0000
Emil Ivov <emil@jitsi.org> writes: > Ironically, advising *others* how *they* should follow Postel’s > principle is exactly the opposite of the principle. Really it's not. The exact opposite would be "Be conservative in what you accept, liberal in what you send". There's nothing in Postel's Principle that keeps people from explaining the principle to others or how it might map to their situation. It would be a fairly useless principle if that were the case. Thanks, Chris. > On Sun, Jun 6, 2021 at 00:44 Larry Masinter <LMM@acm.org> wrote: > > This is the argument about Postel's principle (conservative in > what you send, liberal in what you accept) in layer 9. > It seems to me that Facebook is doing just fine slowing down (24 > hours) the possible propagation of violence incitement without > requiring a lot of judgement on what does or does not constitute > thoughtful vs. inciteful speech. > > "Kill them all and let TCP sort it out" can readily be expressed > in other terms. A content moderation policy that slowed down > frequent postings (by 24 hours) might temper heated conversations > and lead to calmer considerations of the actual requirements. > > > I hereby propose we censor Facebook engineers in IETF meetings > for promoting stupidity. > > Can public forums improve the quality of discussion by delaying > frequent, divisive posters? > Is trying to do so really "promoting stupidity"? (Obligatory 😊) > > -- > https://LarryMasinter.net https://interlisp.org
- Why we really can't use Facebook for technical di… Dean Willis
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Fred Baker
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Töma Gavrichenkov
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Dean Willis
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Jared Mauch
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Dean Willis
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- RE: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Larry Masinter
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Emil Ivov
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Christian Hopps
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Salz, Rich
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Dean Willis
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Salz, Rich
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- RE: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Larry Masinter
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Fred Baker
- RE: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Larry Masinter
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Lloyd W
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… lloydwood@users.sourceforge.net
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Bron Gondwana
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Keith Moore
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Keith Moore
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Andy Ringsmuth
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Lloyd W
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Keith Moore
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Keith Moore
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Randy Presuhn
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Dean Willis
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Andy Ringsmuth
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Keith Moore
- Re: Moderation at scale is hard^Wimpossible, or W… John Levine
- Re: Moderation at scale is hard^Wimpossible, or W… Emil Ivov
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Richard Shockey
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Aqua Q Glass
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Aqua Q Glass
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Lloyd W
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Lloyd W
- RE: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Lloyd W
- RE: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: github terms of service, not Why we really ca… John Levine
- The problem we could solve (re github etc.) Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: The problem we could solve (re github etc.) John R. Levine
- Re: The problem we could solve (re github etc.) John C Klensin
- Re: The problem we could solve (re github etc.) Michael Richardson
- Re: The problem we could solve (re github etc.) Michael Richardson
- Re: The problem we could solve (re github etc.) Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: The problem we could solve (re github etc.) Alessandro Vesely
- Re: The problem we could solve (re github etc.) Phillip Hallam-Baker