Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps
Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com> Tue, 20 January 2015 14:55 UTC
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 09:55:45 -0500
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Subject: Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps
From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>
To: joel jaeggli <joelja@bogus.com>
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On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 11:55 PM, joel jaeggli <joelja@bogus.com> wrote: > On 1/19/15 6:55 PM, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote: > > Before we go too far with this, it just occurred to me that implicit in > > the discussion to date has been the notion that an AD spends most of > > their time managing WGs. > > There's an enormous fraction of this activity that is devoted to > spherding documents through post-working group stages, reviewing other > documents prior to the telechat's that punctuate iesg review. and > triaging documents where there are seriously problems. Those are not > by-in-large tied up in working group management. Absolutely. But the point I was making is that every draft has security implications while an application draft that has routing implications almost certainly needs slapping with something. Sorry to sound like a broken record on this, but I think we are making a lot of work for ourselves by not having a reference architecture. This creates work at the WG level as each WG goes off and makes its own interpretation of the architectural principles. Then the IESG starts with a set of divergent documents and tries to make sense of them. I have been trying to do write a reference architecture to describe it to non Internet folk and I am rather surprised to find that the Internet architecture as currently deployed can be described in a reasonably compact and clean model[*] without resorting to calling firewalls, NAT, VPN, SDN etc. blasphemies. It is counterproductive to have a WG spend time deciding how to apply JSON, etc. and then have those decisions overridden at the IESG level to get consistency between specs. I want the consistency, just at a lower human cost. One approach that might help would be for the IESG to maintain a wiki with prior feedback from ADs sorted into some form of structure. This would then serve as precedent folk could look up. Another pathology I really dislike is when certain individuals wait till the AD is out of the room and then tell the WG what the IESG is going to demand (which is frequently rather different to what they actually say). So basically the same thing as minutes but structured somehow. [*] About the same number of elements as the standard model of particle physics.
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Ted Lemon
- IETF areas re-organisation steps Jari Arkko
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Huub van Helvoort
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Robert Sparks
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Dave Crocker
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Paul Hoffman
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Steve Crocker
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Ted Lemon
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Michael Richardson
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Michael Richardson
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Scott Brim
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Ole Jacobsen
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Dave Crocker
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Alia Atlas
- WGs/AD [IETF areas re-organisation steps] Brian E Carpenter
- Re: WGs/AD [IETF areas re-organisation steps] Stephen Farrell
- Re: WGs/AD [IETF areas re-organisation steps] Alia Atlas
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: WGs/AD [IETF areas re-organisation steps] Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Ted Hardie
- Re: WGs/AD [IETF areas re-organisation steps] Jari Arkko
- Re: WGs/AD [IETF areas re-organisation steps] Alia Atlas
- Re: WGs/AD [IETF areas re-organisation steps] Melinda Shore
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Eggert, Lars
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Nico Williams
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Robert Sparks
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Alissa Cooper
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Ted Hardie
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Robert Sparks
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Eggert, Lars
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Jari Arkko
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Dave Crocker
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Brian Trammell
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Mary Barnes
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Dave Crocker
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Ben Campbell
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Benoit Claise
- RE: IETF areas re-organisation steps Larry Masinter
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Yoav Nir
- RE: IETF areas re-organisation steps Larry Masinter
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps joel jaeggli
- RE: IETF areas re-organisation steps Larry Masinter
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Julian Reschke
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps t.p.