Re: Deprecating IPv6 (Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00)

[Mark Andrews <[e-mail]>]

In message <[e-mail]>, Simon Hobso
n writes:
> Mark Andrews <[e-mail]> wrote:
> 
> >> My very limited experience with ISP provided IPv6 is that so far, what
> >> I've seen is sensible allocations (eg a /56 for a home user). If the
> >> majority do the right thing, then the exceptions can stand out and get a
> >> reputation for "broken". I know in the real world there will be cases
> >> where there's an effective monopoly (for some group of users) allowing
> >> the ISP to do what they want, but that's not an excuse to just throw in
> >> the towel and give the rest carte blanch.
> > 
> > And 256 prefixes very quickly become too few as we develop new
> > technologies to take advantage that you can get prefixes easily.
> > ISP's have been short sighted here.  The IETF started out saying
> > /48 to give every site enough prefixes that they shouldn't have to
> > go back and get more except in exceptional circumstances.
> 
> I disagree - at least for home users.
> Most home users simply unpack the ISP router, plug it in, and connect their d
> evices to it.
> They plug in their webcams https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/06/08/whitebox_
> webcam_scatters_vulnerabilities_through_multiple_oems/
> plug in their "smart" lightbulbs https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/27/osr
> am_smart_lightbulbs/
> plug in their "smart" doorbell & locks https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/01/
> 12/ring_doorbell_reveals_wifi_credentials/
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/08/using_a_smart_bluetooth_lock_to_prote
> ct_your_valuables_youre_an_idiot/
> connect their kids toys http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/02/19/hello_barbie/
>  and their own "toys" http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/07/your_sec_toy_is
> _spying_on_you_hackers_crack_our_plastic_pals/
> 
> I could go on (kettles, fridges, bathroom scales, ... all with reported secur
> ity flaws), but I think you get the idea !
> All of this will be on one network, one subnet/prefix. The majority of users 
> (some small rounding error below 100%) will have no idea at all about network
> ing, they won't have any clue about setting up multiple networks - and the wa
> y much of the kit works, it won't work anyway if the device isn't on the same
>  network/subnet/prefix and the users phone/tablet.

Just because you are not used to home routers that configure multiple
subnets doesn't mean they don't exist.

> I recall a few years ago visiting my alma mater and found that ethernet
> ports  had appeared in the rooms. When I plugged into one, I could see
> all the security cameras etc were on the same segment and even the same
> subnet ! If a university college can't get simple things like this right,
> what makes you think  home users will do any better ?

Because we will ship routers that do multiple subnets by default
because that is what is needed to deal with situations like you
describe above.

> As I sit here (as part of that rounding error of users), to be frank, I
> am struggling to think what I could (practically) use 10 separate networks
> for, let alone 100 or 200 or 256 !

Uses will come up.  I use 3 subnets today for the home.  I would
expect that I'll use more in the future.  Once more than one becomes
common people will design stuff that can make use of additional
subnets.

> > Note: the rule always has been "if you don't have enough prefixes
> > ask your ISP for more".
> 
> At which point you come up against the technically illiterate
> beancounters running (some of) the ISPs who figure that if you want more
> IPs then you must be a customer worthy of paying them more. The same ones
> who, in the IPv4 world want a significant amount extra just to have a
> single fixed IP rather than a dynamic one, and even more if you want more
> than one address.

A /48 costs a cent.
 
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-- 
Mark Andrews, ISC
1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
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