IETF Logo Mail Archive

[rtcweb] H.261

"Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)" <mzanaty@cisco.com> Fri, 22 November 2013 05:17 UTC

Return-Path: <mzanaty@cisco.com>
X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3FAF1ADFA0 for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Nov 2013 21:17:54 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -8.511
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.525, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.514, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sNQxzh1fw4fd for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Nov 2013 21:17:53 -0800 (PST)
Received: from alln-iport-8.cisco.com (alln-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.142.95]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC8191A1F61 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Thu, 21 Nov 2013 21:17:52 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4543; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1385097466; x=1386307066; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=/p4oK4ND2uzO9BFHpIRyeNHYhl4aCAL4kHJId6Eo8P0=; b=L3D8ZawIsv8ycy0HutnabEv5Z6NULI5lqZ9s7ousujFXrpsFp2ViaD8p 9Bs4ogbdI46RQC3YYq9TLrye/+vx/gAzBbMb9Q04OkIjNU4UJXAkqQ38a ymz8lHlQUXzaNa/xAhZ7uRc1Ukylkj8sDe0NryrK+/moOJwfrFghT1dlV o=;
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AhQFAOvnjlKtJV2b/2dsb2JhbABZgkNEOFO8O4EkFnSCLHkSAQw7ORQTBA4FiAENwHYXjwGEOQOYE5IQgyiCKg
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.93,750,1378857600"; d="scan'208,217";a="1421143"
Received: from rcdn-core-4.cisco.com ([173.37.93.155]) by alln-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP; 22 Nov 2013 05:17:45 +0000
Received: from xhc-aln-x11.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x11.cisco.com [173.36.12.85]) by rcdn-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id rAM5Hjh1020663 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Nov 2013 05:17:45 GMT
Received: from xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com ([169.254.4.50]) by xhc-aln-x11.cisco.com ([173.36.12.85]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Thu, 21 Nov 2013 23:17:45 -0600
From: "Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)" <mzanaty@cisco.com>
To: Basil Mohamed Gohar <basilgohar@librevideo.org>
Thread-Topic: H.261
Thread-Index: AQHO50Itstn9eh6B8EejB0XcQHHKMg==
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2013 05:17:45 +0000
Message-ID: <CEB4350B.1E7B2%mzanaty@cisco.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.9.131030
x-originating-ip: [10.82.237.72]
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CEB4350B1E7B2mzanatyciscocom_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org>
Subject: [rtcweb] H.261
X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list <rtcweb.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/>
List-Post: <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2013 05:17:55 -0000

On 11/21/13 12:48, Basil Mohamed Gohar <basilgohar@librevideo.org<mailto:basilgohar@librevideo.org>> wrote:
Has anyone actually objected to H.261 being the one MTI codec [...] ?

Assume this wins and all obey. Chrome does H.261+VP8, Firefox does H.261+H.264+VP8, IE does H.261+H.264, Safari does H.261+H.264. According to various (incredibly extrapolated, possibly inaccurate and sometimes conflicting) sources [1] on who uses what browser, the chance of H.261 fallback is a whopping 30% [2]. Not the minor insignificant case some had assumed.

How will these users react to H.261 QCIF/CIF compared to what they use today, say Skype for example? "This web shit really sucks. I’m going back to Skype and never trying it again." Is that the first (and perhaps last) impression we want from users that try webrtc? Those arguing crappy video is better than no video are ignoring the critical importance of first impressions. While some may accept crappy video as usable, many more may be permanently turned off and tune out even faster than if they got only (good) audio. It’s not as if webrtc is the only game in town. Users have options, so it needs to be competitive with competitive technology which has already set the bar.

We previously narrowed the options down to H.264 and VP8 for good reasons over the course of this excruciatingly long decision. Reopening discarded tangents like H.261 does not move us forward as a workgroup, and certainly does not move webrtc forward as a technology.

Mo

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
[2] H.261 fallback % = 2 x VP8-only% x H.264-only% = 2 x Chrome% x (IE% + Safari%)

v2.29.0 | Report a Bug | By Email | System Status