Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//RE: new draft: draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhcpv6-slaac-problem
Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> Thu, 24 October 2013 13:47 UTC
Return-Path: <mellon@fugue.com>
X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 043BB21E8093 for <v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 24 Oct 2013 06:47:30 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TyO4ol6YRqjn for <v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 24 Oct 2013 06:47:17 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from toccata.fugue.com (toccata.fugue.com [204.152.186.142]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06E8211E81C9 for <v6ops@ietf.org>; Thu, 24 Oct 2013 06:44:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [10.0.10.40] (c-174-62-147-182.hsd1.nh.comcast.net [174.62.147.182]) by toccata.fugue.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 88D5B23802F4; Thu, 24 Oct 2013 09:44:43 -0400 (EDT)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.0 \(1816\))
From: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
In-Reply-To: <CE8E8EC3.59F3A%victor@jvknet.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2013 09:44:43 -0400
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <06601039-CAFD-49B0-918B-A8ACD51B978D@fugue.com>
References: <CE8E8EC3.59F3A%victor@jvknet.com>
To: Victor Kuarsingh <victor@jvknet.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1816)
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 22:18:26 -0700
Cc: "draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhcpv6-slaac-problem@tools.ietf.org" <draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhcpv6-slaac-problem@tools.ietf.org>, "v6ops@ietf.org" <v6ops@ietf.org>, "Ole Troan (otroan)" <otroan@cisco.com>, Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com>
Subject: Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//RE: new draft: draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhcpv6-slaac-problem
X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: v6ops discussion list <v6ops.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/v6ops>
List-Post: <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2013 13:47:32 -0000
On Oct 24, 2013, at 8:55 AM, Victor Kuarsingh <victor@jvknet.com> wrote: > From: Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com> >> 2. Attempt to say that RAs and DHCPv6 are simply containers and propose a unified option format so we can have the >>same options in both of them. I know this was already proposed once and was shot down, but I wasn't around, so I >>don't know why. (CCing a few people who might know). > > [VK] This seems like an intriguing idea. Would this mean that every option must go into each container, or that there will be a common set of options which go into both, and perhaps exceptions go into one or the other? (On that latter part, I guess that line of thinking gets us back to where we are). I think the main reason we didn't do this is that it seems like a mistake to have two mechanisms for delivering the same information. If we really think RA is the right way to do all host configuration, why not just add a stateful mode? If we really think DHCP is the right way to do all host configuration, why not just add support for configuring routes? Stateful RA could actually be piggybacked onto DHCP, so that the router just creates a DHCP message and forwards it upstream, or answers it locally, depending on the circumstances. Doing what's proposed here means that code on clients needs to be four times more complicated than it would be otherwise. Putting DNS server options in RAs was a bad idea. Continuing down that path is a worse idea, particularly since this proposal would mean there'd be two ways of representing DNS server information in RAs. If we really got this wrong, we should fix it, not make it worse. Anyway, that's the rhetorical position I'm going to stake out for now. I'm curious to see if anybody can come up with a reason to disagree that doesn't simplify to either "I hate RA" or "I hate DHCP."
- [v6ops] new draft: draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhcpv6-… fred
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhc… Mikael Abrahamsson
- [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//RE: n… Liubing (Leo)
- [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//RE: n… Liubing (Leo)
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Ole Troan (otroan)
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Wuyts Carl
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… sthaug
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… sthaug
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Wuyts Carl
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Liubing (Leo)
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… 神明達哉
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… 神明達哉
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Victor Kuarsingh
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Sander Steffann
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Tore Anderson
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Victor Kuarsingh
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Arturo Servin
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Victor Kuarsingh
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Xing Li
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Xing Li
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Xing Li
- [v6ops] Comments on draft-sun-v6ops-openv6-addres… meng.wei2
- Re: [v6ops] Comments on draft-sun-v6ops-openv6-ad… Qiong
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… james woodyatt
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… james woodyatt
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Andrew Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Tim Chown
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Tim Chown
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Andrew Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Andrew Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Weil, Jason
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Andrew Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Weil, Jason
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… 神明達哉
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Andrew Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Brian Haberman
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Andrew Yourtchenko
- [v6ops] Link layer lossage [DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hos… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] Link layer lossage [DHCPv6/SLAAC Make… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Andrew Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Andrew Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Ray Hunter
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Weil, Jason
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Andrew Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhc… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhc… 神明達哉
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhc… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhc… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhc… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhc… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhc… Liubing (Leo)
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhc… Liubing (Leo)
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhc… 神明達哉