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Re: [112attendees] Plenary last week - missed

"Borchert, Oliver (Fed)" <oliver.borchert@nist.gov> Tue, 09 November 2021 19:35 UTC

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From: "Borchert, Oliver (Fed)" <oliver.borchert@nist.gov>
To: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>
CC: "Borchert, Oliver (Fed)" <oliver.borchert=40nist.gov@dmarc.ietf.org>, "112attendees@ietf.org" <112attendees@ietf.org>, Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr>, Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net>, "Borchert, Oliver (Fed)" <oliver.borchert@nist.gov>
Thread-Topic: [112attendees] Plenary last week - missed
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Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2021 19:34:55 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/112attendees/88Tzwr_pCiNwjfq7v2H14osZlLQ>
Subject: Re: [112attendees] Plenary last week - missed
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I see at least two issues here.
(a) Moving the plenary from its normal spot within IETF week to a week prior should have been announced more often. Especially where it was the first time. And yes this might be a failure in execution but this raises the question: Isn’t the execution part of the experiment?
(b) Regarding WG session conflicts: OK, it was outside of WG sessions but cut into Hackathon week – Doesn’t affect everyone but has some overlap as well.

So if the idea was to prevent any overlapping, then why not having the plenary after the IETF week. Should be even better because it can include latest events from the IETF week and does not overlap with anything.

Just a thought,
Oliver

From: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 2:15 PM
To: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>
Cc: "Borchert, Oliver (Fed)" <oliver.borchert=40nist.gov@dmarc.ietf.org>, "112attendees@ietf.org" <112attendees@ietf.org>, Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr>, Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, Oliver Borchert <oliver.borchert@nist.gov>, Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net>
Subject: Re: [112attendees] Plenary last week - missed

I agree with Toerless in that if there was a failure in the experiment, it was of execution rather than concept. I like that the earlier plenary provides more time for WG sessions (or fewer conflicts) during IETF week, given that the days are shorter when IETF meetings are virtual. I assume that once we're back to in-person meetings, the plenary will go back to the late afternoon/early evening.

Cheers,
Andy



On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 2:10 PM Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de<mailto:tte@cs.fau.de>> wrote:
I don't think that a clash was overlooked is showing a failure of the experiment.
It is a failure of execution, but having the plenary and HotRFC in the week
in before the other meetings might still be useful. Maybe one can think of that
week becoming something like the "free IETF week" to also attract more newcomers
before they decide they want to do real work.

Whether we will be able to avoid future conflicts if we want to go to such 2 full
weeks is of course a different question. Makes it more difficult i fear.

Toerless

On Tue, Nov 09, 2021 at 06:57:32PM +0000, Borchert, Oliver (Fed) wrote:
> +1, I agree with Jared,
>
> Oliver
>
> On 11/9/21, 1:33 PM, "112attendees on behalf of Jared Mauch" <112attendees-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:112attendees-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of jared@puck.nether.net<mailto:jared@puck.nether.net>> wrote:
>
>     I consider the experiment a failure btw.
>
>     > On Nov 9, 2021, at 12:49 PM, Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com<mailto:bob.hinden@gmail.com>> wrote:
>     >
>     > Alex,
>     >
>     > This was announced on September 2 "Proposed Experiment for IETF 112: Moving the Plenary”.
>     >
>     > https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmailarchive.ietf.org%2Farch%2Fmsg%2Fietf-announce%2Fz3FZnHmcuxDevC4BkmoY8I89yPk%2F&amp;data=04%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C0eabbeb3ce2a4c250c5e08d9a3af6247%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C637720795959633881%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=JFyiLn9E0wOVWIkI0rOJwVp%2FKqf9gs1%2FRPymcqL30O4%3D&amp;reserved=0<https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmailarchive.ietf.org%2Farch%2Fmsg%2Fietf-announce%2Fz3FZnHmcuxDevC4BkmoY8I89yPk%2F&data=04%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C6251253538bc4712cbfb08d9a3b55403%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C637720821474578798%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=olmdYfU3Jw0XjlVLN36vUgIGndkgqBmey5UfHGhCsUk%3D&reserved=0>
>     >
>     > I didn’t attend.
>
>     I did not either, it did not consult this list (for example).
>
>     https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fhow%2Fmeetings%2Fplanning%2Fclash-list%2F&amp;data=04%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C0eabbeb3ce2a4c250c5e08d9a3af6247%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C637720795959633881%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=qVlWnq3%2BwRTKlbW24%2FbkkxUWnzYXW87zpmfDLq%2BLnpw%3D&amp;reserved=0<https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fhow%2Fmeetings%2Fplanning%2Fclash-list%2F&data=04%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C6251253538bc4712cbfb08d9a3b55403%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C637720821474588752%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=QzSowZJdW8YOjtKO6bPiEAM0jYA6ODwBuh0t1kiiYY8%3D&reserved=0>
>
>     There’s some other issues that happened around the meeting as well which cause me to have this opinion.
>
>     - Jared
>
>     >
>     > Bob
>     >
>     >
>     >> On Nov 9, 2021, at 9:43 AM, Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr<mailto:alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr>> wrote:
>     >>
>     >> I missed the Plenary last week, because I didnt expect it there.
>     >>
>     >> This time IETF meeting is so strange.  It spans two weeks time with importnat things in the first week, including the Plenary, but the WG meetings are in the second week.
>     >>
>     >> All these discussions we had in shmoo WG about online or not online and I did not see any sign about Plenary being in the first week.
>     >>
>     >> All these discussions about which 3-4 time slots are best around the world, which UTC ways to refer to them, etc, and I missed the Plenary.
>     >>
>     >> Sigh...
>     >>
>     >> Alex
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> --
>     >> 112attendees mailing list
>     >> 112attendees@ietf.org<mailto:112attendees@ietf.org>
>     >> https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F112attendees&amp;data=04%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C0eabbeb3ce2a4c250c5e08d9a3af6247%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C637720795959633881%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=l%2BbQYto1MvthnyJUexpL%2FwWLkdA1WvVlXlNBXFgMMXw%3D&amp;reserved=0<https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F112attendees&data=04%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C6251253538bc4712cbfb08d9a3b55403%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C637720821474588752%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=5OfTMhdZNsXC7W%2B6siodHg6FmqH%2FTGxGVrR9K%2BA2dUk%3D&reserved=0>
>     >
>     > --
>     > 112attendees mailing list
>     > 112attendees@ietf.org<mailto:112attendees@ietf.org>
>     > https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F112attendees&amp;data=04%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C0eabbeb3ce2a4c250c5e08d9a3af6247%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C637720795959633881%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=l%2BbQYto1MvthnyJUexpL%2FwWLkdA1WvVlXlNBXFgMMXw%3D&amp;reserved=0<https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F112attendees&data=04%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C6251253538bc4712cbfb08d9a3b55403%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C637720821474598715%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=sJANaoZ7SUopPphSzFP53PlizJiv4Yl2QB%2BdrWzFbX0%3D&reserved=0>
>
>     --
>     112attendees mailing list
>     112attendees@ietf.org<mailto:112attendees@ietf.org>
>     https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F112attendees&amp;data=04%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C0eabbeb3ce2a4c250c5e08d9a3af6247%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C637720795959633881%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=l%2BbQYto1MvthnyJUexpL%2FwWLkdA1WvVlXlNBXFgMMXw%3D&amp;reserved=0<https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F112attendees&data=04%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C6251253538bc4712cbfb08d9a3b55403%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C637720821474598715%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=sJANaoZ7SUopPphSzFP53PlizJiv4Yl2QB%2BdrWzFbX0%3D&reserved=0>
>
> --
> 112attendees mailing list
> 112attendees@ietf.org<mailto:112attendees@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/112attendees<https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2F112attendees&data=04%7C01%7Coliver.borchert%40nist.gov%7C6251253538bc4712cbfb08d9a3b55403%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C637720821474608665%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=nYAjxbRVcmRb%2BmhtoaOjBeUpbuy%2F3onJMKRwYxCHb3k%3D&reserved=0>

--
---
tte@cs.fau.de<mailto:tte@cs.fau.de>

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112attendees mailing list
112attendees@ietf.org<mailto:112attendees@ietf.org>
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