Re: [112attendees] WG followup discussions in gather.town (was: Re: HotRFC Gather followup)

[Toerless Eckert <[e-mail]>]

On Tue, Nov 09, 2021 at 09:02:13AM -0500, John C Klensin wrote:
> FWIW, I agree with Fred about the points made in this note and
> others.  Gather feels strange and difficult for those of use who
> think about human relationships  and many tasks in terms of
> partially interconnected and overlapping networks with different
> connectivity strengths rather than trees. 

I still do not understand eiher Freds nor your comment here.
Were is the tree ? I see a map. It visuales to me not that
different to the map i have of the physical IETF meeting places
and how to navigate and interact with people as a result of that
movement (vicinity). Is the concern that you only see your
vicinity ? Or do you not want something that attempts to
reproduce the physical meeting experience in this way ?

> I could tell you what
> my social psychologist colleagues call the many people who can
> think only in terms of linear or tree-like relationships, but it
> would probably violate the Code of Conduct.

> The app is also
> difficult because it does not capture the differences among
> "stand there listening", "waiting to speak to someone in the
> conversation about something else", etc.

Godd description.
Any suggestion how this could be resolved ?

>, as well is "we are
> trying to discuss a problem for which you don't have context,
> please stop interrupting", at all well (in f2f conversations...
> well, their avatars can't frown, glare, or growl).

There is now the personal bubble you can create.
Thats a fairly strong indicator of a private discussion.

There could also simply be a space with private meeting
tables, but alas, the map was shrunk and eliminated most of them.

> Its UI/UX
> design is a disaster for those who are sufficiently
> vision-impaired to be able to see the screen but not make fine
> distinctions among icons and avatars much less read tiny type
> (especially when it is moving).

Would it help if the map could be popped out to a different
window so you can two-finger zoom into it without loosing
chat and participants ?

>  Those are examples, not the whole list.

Would be great to suggest actionable improvements.

> And that leaves out the issues raised by Randy and others about
> the IETF supporting privacy-intrusive and other behaviors that
> the IETF claims to reject, ones that I personally agree are
> important and would be important symbolically even if every one
> of us knew how to block those mechanisms and did so.

Is ietf.slack.com any better in this ? 

Cheers
    Toerless

> back to lurking,
>    john
> 
> 
> --On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 04:31 -0800 Fred Baker
> <[e-mail]> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> >> On Nov 8, 2021, at 8:05 PM, Toerless Eckert <[e-mail]>
> >> wrote:
> >> 
> >>> I think it's a difference of opinion.
> >> 
> >> Ok. So, what are your top issues with gather.town ? 
> >> 
> >> (note: "must run on IPv6" is already sold ;-)
> > 
> > Well, yes, it appears to have that issue. Mostly, I would say
> > that it has a number of the needed attributes, but I find it
> > borderline usable. It would be more usable if I thought in
> > terms of tree structures populated with people. Personally, I
> > don't.
> 

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