Re: [ietf-smtp] Possible cont4ibution to moving forward with RFC5321bis SMTP

Dave Crocker <dhc@dcrocker.net> Thu, 02 January 2020 20:20 UTC

Return-Path: <dhc@dcrocker.net>
X-Original-To: ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F415120106 for <ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 2 Jan 2020 12:20:12 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.6
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id o_QETITI5XaE for <ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 2 Jan 2020 12:20:11 -0800 (PST)
Received: from simon.songbird.com (simon.songbird.com [72.52.113.5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 561A212004D for <ietf-smtp@ietf.org>; Thu, 2 Jan 2020 12:20:11 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [192.168.1.85] (108-226-162-63.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net [108.226.162.63]) (authenticated bits=0) by simon.songbird.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-4.1ubuntu1.1) with ESMTP id 002KKrXM032238 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Thu, 2 Jan 2020 12:20:54 -0800
To: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>, ietf-smtp@ietf.org
References: <20191230013034.2C3E111D376E@ary.qy> <f894c448-ac91-6d27-98d6-0803de4ea535@network-heretics.com> <alpine.OSX.2.21.99999.374.1912292129450.44159@ary.qy> <d3dc48b0-332b-c2fe-704a-d6dc69eb5424@network-heretics.com> <5E0B8658.2060703@isdg.net> <fc8d4d71-39a4-6ca0-608a-d2113b206c5f@network-heretics.com> <5E0E10AF.30808@isdg.net> <3a106d9d-7be9-f6d4-b6e6-0103372ae227@network-heretics.com> <de71c2ed-adb6-7cf7-8f6b-a933677dc89f@dcrocker.net> <ddad210b-90b7-1e51-281f-5fcca6c31ac0@network-heretics.com> <ce552773-c8d9-28a4-040d-7efad31fa51b@dcrocker.net> <260da20f-454c-2368-c9c4-02e5a94b9c7b@network-heretics.com>
From: Dave Crocker <dhc@dcrocker.net>
Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking
Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net
Message-ID: <551b5e2d-4978-16b2-6e01-e0232fa52d99@dcrocker.net>
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2020 12:19:54 -0800
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <260da20f-454c-2368-c9c4-02e5a94b9c7b@network-heretics.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf-smtp/3891M-xmKC8XOTGgyahG4-nK7k0>
Subject: Re: [ietf-smtp] Possible cont4ibution to moving forward with RFC5321bis SMTP
X-BeenThere: ietf-smtp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discussion of issues related to Simple Mail Transfer Protocol \(SMTP\) \[RFC 821, RFC 2821, RFC 5321\]" <ietf-smtp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf-smtp>, <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf-smtp/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-smtp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-smtp>, <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2020 20:20:12 -0000

On 1/2/2020 11:34 AM, Keith Moore wrote:
> On 1/2/20 2:08 PM, Dave Crocker wrote:
>> You meant something like: "the sequence of hops starting with the MSA 
>> and ending with the receiving MTA at the destination site".
> 
> Actually I was trying to focus on the single hop between the last MTA of 
> an originating domain and the first MTA of the destination domain.

then referencing MSA continues to confuse me.

Might be worth looking at RFC 5598, Sections 2.2 and 2.3.


>> I'd misunderstood and thought you meant that the MSA interacted 
>> directly with the receiving MTA. 
> 
> That is possible (and in some cases desirable IMO).  

Not really, though this highlights the difference between network 
architecture and network implementation.  The former is an abstraction, 
with lots of possible implementation configurations.

If the box doing the MSA also talks to the receiving MTA, then that 
first box is also an MTA.


d/


-- 
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net