Re: [ietf-smtp] Endless debate on IP literals

Alessandro Vesely <vesely@tana.it> Thu, 02 January 2020 10:51 UTC

Return-Path: <vesely@tana.it>
X-Original-To: ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18CD41200D5 for <ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 2 Jan 2020 02:51:36 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.299
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1152-bit key) header.d=tana.it
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XhB-T48tQt9o for <ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 2 Jan 2020 02:51:34 -0800 (PST)
Received: from wmail.tana.it (wmail.tana.it [62.94.243.226]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3908C1200A3 for <ietf-smtp@ietf.org>; Thu, 2 Jan 2020 02:51:33 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tana.it; s=delta; t=1577962290; bh=uufsyVuePYs7KZZ8EYSYhsnY7wsGartkjn6gbpoHwU0=; l=1237; h=To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=AVcAFUlaJFt0Fp7f9Ye1H+aeeJYNBza2Edq1Nr9U8Z+DegtXdEP5rVzF+2HUwz2om 0mMVfCvcTHNb9Q6ofPLdJqBFdugzntwYZbD91f/UvXGYVUned1Kcwt7k+wFnucNsWN tHDl5Z3db8+WD+p6Mo3/ETPOFExBraD5DRfdZXEM9hs2GpqhAMDNwL+gJVz0f
Authentication-Results: tana.it; auth=pass (details omitted)
Received: from [172.25.197.111] (pcale.tana [172.25.197.111]) (AUTH: CRAM-MD5 uXDGrn@SYT0/k, TLS: TLS1.2, 128bits, ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) by wmail.tana.it with ESMTPSA id 00000000005DC07E.000000005E0DCB32.00002B23; Thu, 02 Jan 2020 11:51:30 +0100
To: ietf-smtp@ietf.org
References: <20191231185722.B47A411DDA7C@ary.qy> <e9b6ab71-e25f-d67a-6f4d-e5b2bfee4c49@network-heretics.com>
From: Alessandro Vesely <vesely@tana.it>
Message-ID: <c9fddffd-ec3f-f5fc-c9e8-1f0856a65446@tana.it>
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2020 11:51:30 +0100
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.3.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <e9b6ab71-e25f-d67a-6f4d-e5b2bfee4c49@network-heretics.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf-smtp/d7iI6H0sUpiG-Kkx6rs4lhhrdaw>
Subject: Re: [ietf-smtp] Endless debate on IP literals
X-BeenThere: ietf-smtp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discussion of issues related to Simple Mail Transfer Protocol \(SMTP\) \[RFC 821, RFC 2821, RFC 5321\]" <ietf-smtp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf-smtp>, <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf-smtp/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-smtp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-smtp>, <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2020 10:51:36 -0000

On Wed 01/Jan/2020 02:37:00 +0100 Keith Moore wrote:
> 
> I am starting to think that it's important to distinguish between
> 
> (a) SMTP the protocol, and
> 
> (b) The "globally-relevant Internet public email" service (GRIPE?  [*]) [...]


Yes


> (I have some other questions regarding IoT use of mail submission services,
> e.g. whether RFC8314 is suitable as-is for use on isolated IP networks, or
> whether IoT devices should be required to use port 587 when submitting mail so
> that the servers will know they have to treat such traffic differently than
> message relaying.    So there might need to be a separate profile for mail
> submission on networks that don't have DNS or connectivity to the public IP
> network.)


Rfc6409 is clear when it says that a server MAY implement submission on port
25.  That entails that it can tell submitting clients from relaying ones.

I found no counter indication about MSA-proxies which submit to another MSA.


> [*] Not a serious proposal for a name; I just wanted a shorthand notation for
> it and that's what I came up with in a couple of minutes.   Suggestions welcome.


s/SMTP/submission (possibly on port 25)/

s/GRIPE/SMTP/


Best
Ale
--