Re: [ietf-smtp] Endless debate on IP literals

"John R Levine" <johnl@taugh.com> Wed, 01 January 2020 01:28 UTC

Return-Path: <johnl@taugh.com>
X-Original-To: ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D1C5120074 for <ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 31 Dec 2019 17:28:59 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1536-bit key) header.d=iecc.com header.b=dJ5zKMij; dkim=pass (1536-bit key) header.d=taugh.com header.b=OVpFIJMH
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7si2LCLTXsOw for <ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 31 Dec 2019 17:28:57 -0800 (PST)
Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 86DFA120059 for <ietf-smtp@ietf.org>; Tue, 31 Dec 2019 17:28:57 -0800 (PST)
Received: (qmail 36091 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2020 01:28:56 -0000
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent; s=8cf3.5e0bf5d8.k1912; i=johnl-iecc.com@submit.iecc.com; bh=DmrHrldgaL/C9Z59Y6StK2OfJ6/Q/ZtXb6wThT9Qfxo=; b=dJ5zKMij9GxCRE2spD0ct+eCC4pOO3UdmI+ExJEMMGh6RDqaTg8Pqg65qbRNi6qBKfMj/5jNkIqbDbLXbPFWHOm4SHTJdLwQh7JSa+hNSdRp4G7b+mMHss2q0ITm0kPocXIjMN8y06EACDEOsn3vPWCA8Hpc11KWZzXG7f6leuaiC0xyTUtpAzVBlhiPRXQyShkO/kmgjaK+mjReekrDlWHQRwexM6vGiWKqk7Nl9mABnkoFtmE/4g25RwwE3GW+
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent; s=8cf3.5e0bf5d8.k1912; olt=johnl-iecc.com@submit.iecc.com; bh=DmrHrldgaL/C9Z59Y6StK2OfJ6/Q/ZtXb6wThT9Qfxo=; b=OVpFIJMHvhiibodfjNZjiP8XHUd9DoQ6Bw8l0OMT2SqRY6cTB4noq8Eel1dJ0fwo0Pvn63/59xvSReCfUXDciBcls+UxpI/FTDEpmkb2ALOizEZTyWAmaJO/V45D1tDU80UGS3vx24D0RA6dfy4fDJNLNgSk051egPlUx/FRsf60Ko+nEj9oGuddCUo/kAcfWPFtMwsRvbs2mVWTVQNZXIBSqDEtg7g1YYGsi3mf7GGOxb4SVB8tCXmNp6TRWReb
Received: from localhost ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTPSA (TLS1.3 ECDHE-RSA AES-256-GCM AEAD, johnl@iecc.com) via TCP6; 01 Jan 2020 01:28:55 -0000
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2019 20:28:55 -0500
Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.2.21.99999.374.1912312028080.51207@ary.qy>
From: John R Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
To: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
Cc: ietf-smtp@ietf.org
In-Reply-To: <357D24576FFBC2C56FE0FF07@JcK-HP5.jck.com>
References: <20191231185722.B47A411DDA7C@ary.qy> <357D24576FFBC2C56FE0FF07@JcK-HP5.jck.com>
User-Agent: Alpine 2.21.99999 (OSX 374 2019-10-27)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; format="flowed"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf-smtp/MAWyEOgzENk5I075kka3pZToM3U>
Subject: Re: [ietf-smtp] Endless debate on IP literals
X-BeenThere: ietf-smtp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discussion of issues related to Simple Mail Transfer Protocol \(SMTP\) \[RFC 821, RFC 2821, RFC 5321\]" <ietf-smtp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf-smtp>, <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf-smtp/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-smtp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-smtp>, <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2020 01:28:59 -0000

On Tue, 31 Dec 2019, John C Klensin wrote:
> Noting that the logic above is the same, anyone want to make a
> case that people have had circa 27 years to adapt to EHLO (i.e.,
> since RFC 1425 was published), that a number of important and
> heavily-used features (such a the 8BITMIME extension) are
> dependent on it as are other options that people in many part of
> the world consider important (e.g., SMTPUTF8), and it is
> therefore time to just deprecate HELO.

With a clearer split between SMTP and submission, that seems sensible. 
Submission can excuse all sorts of antique stuff that SMTP wouldn't.

Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly