IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Possible OBF question -- I18n)

Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com> Fri, 01 June 2018 17:59 UTC

Return-Path: <nico@cryptonector.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5BB812DA03 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 10:59:27 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.999
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cryptonector.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id si65EjSLTECG for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 10:59:25 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from homiemail-a102.g.dreamhost.com (homie-sub4.mail.dreamhost.com [69.163.253.135]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B269512D958 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 10:59:25 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from homiemail-a102.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a102.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F30D2004DE15 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 10:59:25 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=cryptonector.com; h= mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject :to:cc:content-type; s=cryptonector.com; bh=LFCMPhjBDfsS581IjZ7Q QRfsS8Y=; b=Fy59Z+KOuh/2YMXKBlQ6oW8UtDV///GEchtnMvNEOikMSMVxqUOY eBjrwHXZMh8/Z3B4obUuqZ4wiZHm+lil6TIP6EEHVEm+tm3+bUNlEC+iPTW3X/Ej ZZ/OhEv8wlKkCW2B65dclWqy5pd+Tvu6dlrL8x6XiGV9JsWaoTJq8ZA=
Received: from mail-ua0-f179.google.com (mail-ua0-f179.google.com [209.85.217.179]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: nico@cryptonector.com) by homiemail-a102.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1AEBB2004DE14 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 10:59:25 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-ua0-f179.google.com with SMTP id x18-v6so11186655uaj.9 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 10:59:25 -0700 (PDT)
X-Gm-Message-State: ALKqPwck5CTbAX/s5CvZEcV+jhZVARmRHr5D4dwCc8cbqnPnLwjgTiK8 oZ4t8+ao1z1Iqaq70kifuDHFnRHTSnnIAlg4Xw==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKLRrtuByd7+xCGf4eTjm4C17u9HqAZj66C+PSqGn5hTRx/rlivM2937N1ESmOxB8xuTOWc+NF2yqFXBJdTr7Ow=
X-Received: by 2002:a9f:3668:: with SMTP id s37-v6mr7961713uad.19.1527875964481; Fri, 01 Jun 2018 10:59:24 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <20180530231127.17198276FEE3@ary.qy> <071E6235FE7B088A2B56A238@PSB> <0093E2CD-670E-47B6-A286-4FDEB140FAD9@frobbit.se> <20180531172228.GF14446@localhost> <383c2404-7beb-63e9-b2b2-e75fd1b174f1@mozilla.com> <20180601041949.GH14446@localhost> <A13FFF23-49BD-459D-8B5B-D3448154EEBC@frobbit.se> <20180601151053.GI14446@localhost> <2584adb9-1622-8b49-7236-ecc7dd374974@mozilla.com> <alpine.OSX.2.21.1806011219340.7621@ary.qy>
In-Reply-To: <alpine.OSX.2.21.1806011219340.7621@ary.qy>
From: Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com>
Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 12:59:12 -0500
X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: <CAK3OfOgv33SJiPJ6ypo8k5hcpnjcJdRso6EXb9b12YNcdDgMUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK3OfOgv33SJiPJ6ypo8k5hcpnjcJdRso6EXb9b12YNcdDgMUg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Possible OBF question -- I18n)
To: John R Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
Cc: IETF general list <ietf@ietf.org>, Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@mozilla.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001fb639056d98582a"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/I7Hrsy1dW8ynDZFrzvTSln0-G4Q>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 17:59:28 -0000

On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 11:27 AM John R Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:

> Like jck, I have to disagree with Nico's assertion that anyone can pick up
> I18N expertise quickly, and also jck's comment that if your experience is
> only with European alphabetic languages, you've barely scratched the
> surface.  It's remarkably subtle.  It needs a particular mindset, in much
> the way that being a crypto expert does.  Different mindset, though.


Not everyone can pick up I18N expertise  quickly?  Sure, but we engineer
complex things, so i suspect many participants at the IETF can actually
pick up enough I18N expertise to be useful. I18N is not a dark art.

Can we get more training?  Will ISOC pay for it, perhaps?

Or are you saying the rest of us are not just good enough?  What are _your_
concrete proposals?

The negativity here makes me wonder.  With this sort of attitude nothing
good will result. Saying the sky is falling might get you some volunteers,
but saying none could help sure won't.

Nico
--

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email