Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n
"John R Levine" <johnl@taugh.com> Sat, 02 June 2018 13:56 UTC
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Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2018 09:56:32 -0400
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From: John R Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
To: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Cc: IETF general list <ietf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n
In-Reply-To: <6c5d5618-74a5-dcc8-d818-89243a41f307@gmail.com>
References: <20180530231127.17198276FEE3@ary.qy> <071E6235FE7B088A2B56A238@PSB> <0093E2CD-670E-47B6-A286-4FDEB140FAD9@frobbit.se> <20180531172228.GF14446@localhost> <383c2404-7beb-63e9-b2b2-e75fd1b174f1@mozilla.com> <20180601041949.GH14446@localhost> <A13FFF23-49BD-459D-8B5B-D3448154EEBC@frobbit.se> <20180601151053.GI14446@localhost> <2584adb9-1622-8b49-7236-ecc7dd374974@mozilla.com> <alpine.OSX.2.21.1806011219340.7621@ary.qy> <CAK3OfOgv33SJiPJ6ypo8k5hcpnjcJdRso6EXb9b12YNcdDgMUg@mail.gmail.com> <6c5d5618-74a5-dcc8-d818-89243a41f307@gmail.com>
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On Sat, 2 Jun 2018, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > If a dark art is one that involves combinatorial degrees of complexity > mixed with human perception, judgment and emotion, then I fear that I18N > *is* a dark art. We can perhaps manage such complexity by limiting the > scope of what we try to do in our protocols, but I for one would very > much appreciate having an I18N directorate reviewing everything. Thanks, that was what I was trying to get at. It would be great if more people learned about I18n issues, but I worry about expertise at the level of security experts telling people to memorize all their passwords and change them every month. "Confusables", different characters that look exactly or approximately the same is a good example. I used to think that one could make sets of confusable characters and avoid security problems by disallowing strings that differed only in confusables. Unfortunately, what is confusable is highly context dependent. For example, an Arabic digit 5 looks a lot like a lower case letter o, so depending on who and where you are you might think it looks like o or 0 or you might think it looks like 5 or you might think it looks like both. I didn't realize that until I talked to native Arabic speakers and tried to read speed limit signs in Abu Dhabi. Don't get me started on composable emoji and skin tones. I'm not saying it's hopeless, but we need to be careful assuming that some knowledge always leads to better analyses than none. Remember all those passwords they force you to change every month. Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
- Possible OBF question -- I18n John C Klensin
- Re: Possible OBF question -- I18n John Levine
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… John C Klensin
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… Patrik Fältström
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… John R Levine
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… John C Klensin
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… Patrik Fältström
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… Patrik Fältström
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… tom p.
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… John R Levine
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… John C Klensin
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… Nico Williams
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… Donald Eastlake
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… John C Klensin
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… John C Klensin
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… Patrik Fältström
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… Patrik Fältström
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n Adam Roach
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… Nico Williams
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… Nico Williams
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n Brian E Carpenter
- RE: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… Larry Masinter
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… Patrik Fältström
- RE: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… John C Klensin
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… Nico Williams
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… Patrik Fältström
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… Niels ten Oever
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… John R Levine
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… John R Levine
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… Nico Williams
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… Nico Williams
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… Nico Williams
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… John C Klensin
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… Patrik Fältström
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… John C Klensin
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… Nico Williams
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… Nico Williams
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… Patrik Fältström
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n John R Levine
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… John C Klensin
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… Nico Williams
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n Nico Williams
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n Nico Williams
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n (was: Re: Poss… Patrik Fältström
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n Nico Williams
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n Barry Leiba
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n Christian Huitema
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n Nico Williams
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n tom p.
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n Barry Leiba
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n ned+ietf
- Re: Possible BofF question -- I18n ned+ietf