Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (and ignores IETF IPR rules)

[Simon Josefsson <[e-mail]>]

Brian E Carpenter <[e-mail]> writes:

> On 2009-12-01 23:57, Simon Josefsson wrote:
>> Scott Brim <[e-mail]> writes:
>> 
>>> Simon Josefsson allegedly wrote on 11/30/2009 10:11 AM:
>>>> There is no requirement in the IETF process for organizations to
>>>> disclose patents as far as I can see.  The current approach of only
>>>> having people participate, and disclose patents, in the IETF is easy to
>>>> work around by having two persons in an organization doing different
>>>> things: one works on specifying and standardizing technology, and the
>>>> other is working on patenting the technology.
>>> Simon, from rfc3979:
>>>
>>>    l. "Reasonably and personally known": means something an individual
>>>       knows personally or, because of the job the individual holds,
>>>       would reasonably be expected to know.  This wording is used to
>>>       indicate that an organization cannot purposely keep an individual
>>>       in the dark about patents or patent applications just to avoid the
>>>       disclosure requirement.  But this requirement should not be
>>>       interpreted as requiring the IETF Contributor or participant (or
>>>       his or her represented organization, if any) to perform a patent
>>>       search to find applicable IPR.
>> 
>> I don't see how this modifies anything?  The legal obligation is on the
>> IETF participant, not on the organization.  The organization is not
>> bound by this text.
>
> IANAL. But if the participant is acting as an agent of the employer,
> it seems to me that the employer is bound. In any case, you'd have to be
> a brave or reckless employee not to assume that to be the case. You'd also
> have to be a very obtuse employer to fund your employees to participate
> if you didn't like the IETF's rules.

Now you are moving the responsibility on to the organizations.  I can't
see how that modify my assertion that the IETF does not have any legal
means to pressure organization to file patent disclosures.  Either the
IETF has a legal ability to apply pressure on organizations, or it does
not.  I don't see why that is a controversial statement.  Nothing in the
IETF history suggests it even wants to have a legal link to
organizations who sends participants to the IETF.  The text in RFC 3979
and other documents suggests strongly that this approach is intentional.

/Simon