Re: IETF privacy policy - still a bad idea

Fred Baker <fred@cisco.com> Sat, 24 July 2010 17:02 UTC

Return-Path: <fred@cisco.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C56F3A6359 for <ietf@core3.amsl.com>; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 10:02:34 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -110.056
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.056 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.543, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zbeX8Fz5zcDF for <ietf@core3.amsl.com>; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 10:02:33 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com (rtp-iport-1.cisco.com [64.102.122.148]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5ECB3A69C9 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 10:02:32 -0700 (PDT)
Authentication-Results: rtp-iport-1.cisco.com; dkim=neutral (message not signed) header.i=none
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvsEAN+5SkxAZnwM/2dsb2JhbACfZXGlHZonhTYEiGQ
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.55,253,1278288000"; d="scan'208";a="138656267"
Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com ([64.102.124.12]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 Jul 2010 17:02:51 +0000
Received: from Freds-Computer.local (rtp-vpn6-409.cisco.com [10.82.249.154]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o6OH2h6c027915; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 17:02:45 GMT
Received: from [127.0.0.1] by Freds-Computer.local (PGP Universal service); Sat, 24 Jul 2010 19:02:51 +0200
X-PGP-Universal: processed; by Freds-Computer.local on Sat, 24 Jul 2010 19:02:51 +0200
Subject: Re: IETF privacy policy - still a bad idea
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081)
From: Fred Baker <fred@cisco.com>
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1007241831100.1584@joyce.lan>
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 19:02:36 +0200
Message-Id: <F55D8B96-1D35-414D-8CB9-D4DFC641C14C@cisco.com>
References: <20100721223355.1728.qmail@joyce.lan> <CF9D8943-5A46-4BCA-9A2A-27CBFFA04038@cisco.com> <alpine.BSF.2.00.1007241831100.1584@joyce.lan>
To: "John R. Levine" <johnl@iecc.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Cc: ietf@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 17:02:34 -0000

On Jul 25, 2010, at 12:36 AM, John R. Levine wrote:
>> Good grief.
> 
> Indeed.  Do we agree that this means we're done?

I'm not opposed to the IETF having a privacy policy separate from ISOC's; I'm also not opposed to simply using ISOC's. Whatever we use, I think we should agree to it.

What I don't understand is the amount of arm wrestling that happens on this list. If I were to assert that the sky was blue, someone would want to know the frequency of the color, and someone else would report that the sky as s/he observed it was grey. The discussion would last for weeks, with the person who observed that it was grey periodically reporting a change in status.

I think we are done if we have agreed on a privacy policy. That could mean that we have agreed that there is no policy (and were willing to, as a result, stop screaming about the privacy implications of every little thing that cropped up; we have RFCs that have arisen from such rants), agreed to use ISOC's policy (see http://www.isoc.org/help/privacy/), have agreed to the one Alissa has proposed, or have agreed to something else. At this point, I'm not sure we agree on anything in particular.

I read Alissa's proposal. I might have a few nit points, and back when the thread was about that proposal I thought some others had interesting points. On the whole, it is a privacy policy I could subscribe to, and those points might improve it.