Re: [v6ops] Scope of Unique Local IPv6 Unicast Addresses (Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-gont-6man-ipv6-ula-scope-00.txt)

Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> Sun, 14 February 2021 22:38 UTC

Return-Path: <mellon@fugue.com>
X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E01403A0D1C for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 14:38:34 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: 0.002
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bci6eNkuW9g9 for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 14:38:33 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-qk1-x72c.google.com (mail-qk1-x72c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 15D073A0CDB for <6man@ietf.org>; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 14:38:32 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-qk1-x72c.google.com with SMTP id 81so4978907qkf.4 for <6man@ietf.org>; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 14:38:32 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=MkrNytNOys7i9i8AfbghNZ9HJqBEhzR0HcLpl1UhVPs=; b=JQ9FMzm2OzZM6GhLY8gJa/K7m3neB4XzFpLS36mIMOKbSH0OD//GohOwEu+CjZ01D9 rWg8gNmfpsJnVHL4GC/r5xhVBY9szGU1PDpWtnnvHDe4HCRK3Lc7d1R9W4orrMKiVtpQ HYxDLvDE/PuTFUp0wpJa5lzKCIshWbJJcc877aPuMUUb35/hPxNx1MPeTcbc+eObCz+1 qqx9nRr0dArY7XikyIjyhAMBHPhnvMkrhwoTfBH2R6gCFYtwAIoOlsMD++/Tg4MxKGAG qv42G5ENDpaWm3a3jNjcAvplciEZekSG8kjHNWg8HvC8Bbm3yxSeug295toGY0t/Anpq ErXg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=MkrNytNOys7i9i8AfbghNZ9HJqBEhzR0HcLpl1UhVPs=; b=trFLtVI9DHuL094iQfXXRF6pEB4rMjgFroA+99RS/u8JBHKFRco5lzsDmG8jnEs+Ml SYLuU+OQVm13msU+d91ZoWCTYUG64297U28wt68EJxJxSvE3zT8K3Qurhyfd/gaUqok0 g1RCasUjKddykBLjj8DHymZC1SznSURo0z2syuA0Se6leV9jwHrJ0+MvJs1XkFErliUb KD8g4L2jAwh/Oi1hC+1zWW2Hc2dEBs5F3xvRfEsdej2ZiZc4gaQQS4NOYkMV+w9Vqku/ TVr2eJ/dr7CG8i2bC/8Tzucyohx+RuoI90xwA2q8pO32YNS40bW7UFmThDlO+zn44PFn sGLA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531TXNg/b750YlR7QBUUxchpjdTBpzByASHJpxhN+hj8gnjfA2vD OoVb47E7n1nIhm5LXakBGyWlYA==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzSvltwjKBmKdCPDVAX+E7g/nwUiZtlRMFRnnYfu9/wkWVmLXRVYPigghj+B6X2atxPe+KstA==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:984:: with SMTP id x4mr12627545qkx.249.1613342312097; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 14:38:32 -0800 (PST)
Received: from smtpclient.apple (c-24-91-177-160.hsd1.nh.comcast.net. [24.91.177.160]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s136sm10704453qka.106.2021.02.14.14.38.31 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 14 Feb 2021 14:38:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Message-Id: <21F6827D-2118-43B9-A67E-F5F2BFA2D1F1@fugue.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F1374E1C-9474-453D-820A-EFF5469D6919"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.80.0.2.32\))
Subject: Re: [v6ops] Scope of Unique Local IPv6 Unicast Addresses (Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-gont-6man-ipv6-ula-scope-00.txt)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 17:38:30 -0500
In-Reply-To: <CAN-Dau3vOgUnORpnDBjPj=A18EHDs8B_vwZarSs=FjV2A_K1Lg@mail.gmail.com>
Cc: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>, Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>, IPv6 Operations <v6ops@ietf.org>, "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>
To: David Farmer <farmer@umn.edu>
References: <160989494094.6024.7402128068704112703@ietfa.amsl.com> <6fe3a45e-de65-9f88-808d-ea7e2abdcd16@si6networks.com> <F4E00812-E366-4520-AE17-7BB46E28D575@gmail.com> <CAN-Dau3iOjjU+FLpdtA7nqfKRX+sjjSanAU8U-O3pH-k5nSoig@mail.gmail.com> <a3fbfb94-90ae-961c-a2ab-33ade27e074e@si6networks.com> <672bd5e6-bdce-5915-1082-1ed30d3c5980@gmail.com> <CAN-Dau1CvbwZccq2Zyr8xBkiW1z0nKX_YcGW-y3VL7=pm+wA+w@mail.gmail.com> <227CDF8C-E929-4AA5-9D24-733381EB5C69@fugue.com> <CAN-Dau0JsMJ6Ad1pqeEKSKpRiSXDibMG4yKdVOKL4uFoqi5sAQ@mail.gmail.com> <EED3FE0C-1CE6-4472-895A-7BA6C6A998F3@fugue.com> <CAN-Dau3vOgUnORpnDBjPj=A18EHDs8B_vwZarSs=FjV2A_K1Lg@mail.gmail.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.80.0.2.32)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/6I9KxVo2iUwuy1rcuNnWWFpdNp4>
X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" <ipv6.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/>
List-Post: <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 22:38:36 -0000

On Feb 14, 2021, at 4:54 PM, David Farmer <farmer@umn.edu> wrote:
> So when I read "uniquely identifying interfaces anywhere on the Internet", that suggests to me the entirety of the Internet, basically anywhere and everywhere, whether or not I can actually successfully get packets there or not.  I think that statement needs to be qualified or limited by reachability in some way. It doesn't need to specifically mention local-use, but I think it clarifies the issue.  The fact that someone else on the other side of the planet or even across the street is using the same ULA prefixes as me doesn't really matter because I can't get packets there, but that isn't that what that statement says.

The problem is, then you have to say what “local” means, and it doesn’t mean anything specific. And, specifically, scope right now can be used as a definitional meaning. If you add “site scope,” it doesn’t work, because it’s no longer definitional—it’s operational. Trying to do the same thing with ULA will have the same outcome.