Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third parties [Was Re:Proposal for H.263 baseline codec]
Jean-Marc Valin <jmvalin@mozilla.com> Thu, 05 April 2012 15:10 UTC
Return-Path: <jmvalin@mozilla.com>
X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7485821F86D3 for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 5 Apr 2012 08:10:22 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h02tQZvILCbs for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 5 Apr 2012 08:10:21 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from dm-mail03.mozilla.org (dm-mail03.mozilla.org [63.245.208.213]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4E6D21F8618 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Thu, 5 Apr 2012 08:10:21 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.1.15] (modemcable014.207-160-184.mc.videotron.ca [184.160.207.14]) (Authenticated sender: jvalin@mozilla.com) by dm-mail03.mozilla.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12E5B4AEDD2; Thu, 5 Apr 2012 08:10:20 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <4F7DB5DC.40507@mozilla.com>
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2012 11:10:20 -0400
From: Jean-Marc Valin <jmvalin@mozilla.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686 on x86_64; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120327 Thunderbird/11.0.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "Paul E. Jones" <paulej@packetizer.com>
References: <CAMKM2Ly-xnVEciL941uOu1Bgwc-wssZ7HNkQuBhsCcgyqfuk5Q@mail.gmail.com> <03ac01cd120d$0ffe95f0$2ffbc1d0$@packetizer.com> <4F7BCD1A.7020508@librevideo.org> <03e301cd1223$153e6b60$3fbb4220$@packetizer.com> <4F7C4FB4.4070703@librevideo.org> <007b01cd12f7$fbcd72e0$f36858a0$@packetizer.com>
In-Reply-To: <007b01cd12f7$fbcd72e0$f36858a0$@packetizer.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Cc: rtcweb@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third parties [Was Re:Proposal for H.263 baseline codec]
X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list <rtcweb.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb>
List-Post: <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2012 15:10:22 -0000
On 05/04/12 02:47 AM, Paul E. Jones wrote: > I know, but the reluctance to do so means that Google knows that there *may > be* IPR on VP8. This is just the facts of life. I believe it's extremely > important that people know and understand that nobody knows the IPR > situation with VP8. If they did, they would offer indemnity, because there > is nothing to worry about, but nobody can. Personally, I would be reluctant to indemnify anyone over IPR in a paper clip. This is the sad state of the patent system and it applies to every piece of technology. > Indeed, but I have a significantly higher level of confidence that I can > identify all of the legitimate companies with IPR on H.264, whereas I > haven't a clue where to start (outside of Google) for VP8. Obviously, that makes H.264 so much safer, right? http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/03/29/microsoft_motorola_patent_cases/ > If I owned IPR on VP8 (which I don't personally; can't speak for my > employer), I certainly would not tell you and I would not join a patent > pool, either. I would wait until you adopt VP8, build it into software and > hardware products, have it massively deployed, and then I'd come along and > collect my royalties. There is absolutely no financial incentive for an IPR > holder to join a patent pool. I assume this is why we've seen all these lawsuits against Google, Microsoft, Cisco, Apple... over their use of Vorbis and Speex, right? Seriously, I can count at least 10 free AV codecs and none of them have had any patent lawsuits that I'm aware of. > H.264, on the other hand, is different. H.264 was developed jointly by > video coding experts in ISO and ITU. As an part of that participation, they > are requested to disclose IPR. And, respectable companies will disclose > their IPR. Every company participating in that work has a vested interest > in the success of H.264. Some are looking for royalties and some are > looking for the technology to enable their products. Thus, the formation of > the patent pool is in the best interest of all involved so that people will > adopt the technology. While there are those not in the pool, they have > submitted IPR statements to the ITU. The best interest of a H.264 patent owner is to avoid having to disclose, wait for adoption, and then be free to ask for a lot more than what they would get from the patent pool. This is why I consider H.264 to be a higher risk than VP8. The current Motorola lawsuit confirms this. Cheers, Jean-Marc
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Basil Mohamed Gohar
- [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third partie… Serge Lachapelle
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Basil Mohamed Gohar
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Paul E. Jones
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Paul E. Jones
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Basil Mohamed Gohar
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Serge Lachapelle
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Basil Mohamed Gohar
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Paul E. Jones
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Paul E. Jones
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Jean-Marc Valin
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Paul E. Jones
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Stephan Wenger
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Paul E. Jones
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Marshall Eubanks
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Dean Willis
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Monty Montgomery
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Paul E. Jones
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Dean Willis
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Dean Willis
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Dean Willis
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Paul E. Jones
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Olle E. Johansson
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Erik Lagerway
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Kevin P. Fleming
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Olle E. Johansson
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Paul E. Jones
- Re: [rtcweb] Google VP8 Patent Grant for third pa… Paul E. Jones