Re: [81attendees] sucky Delta hotel network (and bufferbloat)

Dave,

It may be possible to do an estimate as follows:

* If/when the IETF network is directly connected to the hotel network 
  the NOC has good measurements on usage. Using these measurements we 
  can probably approximate what the average bandwith requirement per 
  IETF (hotel) user is. Call that Bx.

* A certain number of overflow hotels are visited prior to venue 
  selection. Bandwidth is discussed (if not measured). Let's call that 
  Bh for the total.

* If Bx * (N IETF guest) >> Bh we know there will be problems and we 
  could certainly make some statement about such limits in advance of 
  the meeting.

None of the above is very scientific (except perhaps for the NOC 
measurement part), and sucky networks suffer from more problems than 
just bandwith issues (recall all the port-blocking at a certain hotel 
in Maastricht). While it may be theoretically possible to gather all
this information for all (some) overflow hotels in advance of the 
meeting, at some point this becomes an excercise in diminishing 
returns. Let's not forget that the site visits are done a couple of
years (initially) prior to the actual meeting, even if there are later 
follow-up visits in some cases.

The NOC people can tell us much more about the (depressing) reality
here (if they're still on the list).

Ole

Ole J. Jacobsen
Editor and Publisher,  The Internet Protocol Journal
Cisco Systems
Tel: +1 408-527-8972   Mobile: +1 415-370-4628
E-mail: ole@cisco.com  URL: http://www.cisco.com/ipj
Skype: organdemo

On Wed, 3 Aug 2011, Dave CROCKER wrote:

> 
> 
> On 8/1/2011 3:01 PM, Ole Jacobsen wrote:
> >
> > "Expectations" are indeed important.
> >
> > Equally important is "common sense and common courtesy" which implies
> > a number of do's and don'ts on the hotel network. I am not going to
> > attempt to create that list here, but I can well imagine some things
> > that I should NOT be doing while on the hotel network, in
> > consideration of my fellow IETFers. (Large downloads, live video...)
> 
> 
> Ole,
> 
> At various times, such examples have been cited, effectively placing the
> responsibility for poor hotel network performance onto IETF guests at the
> hotel.
> 
> Is this merely a matter of being thorough in listing theoretical
> possibilities?  Or do we have any hard data to support the theory that IETF
> guests are, in fact, abusing the hotel networks?
> 
> Is it equally plausible that problem hotels merely do not have adequate
> resources for reasonable use by an Internet-centric block of guests?
> 
> What should the site qualifying teams do to assess a hotel's network
> capabilities?  I know what some of that is already being done but it's worth
> making sure that this issue is sufficiently covered by the site qualifying
> teams.
> 
> d/
> 
> -- 
> 
>   Dave Crocker
>   Brandenburg InternetWorking
>   bbiw.net
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> 