Re: [antitrust-policy] Should the IETF allow discussion of licensing costs
Jorge Contreras <cntreras@gmail.com> Fri, 20 January 2012 21:35 UTC
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Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 15:35:27 -0600
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From: Jorge Contreras <cntreras@gmail.com>
To: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
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Cc: antitrust-policy@ietf.org, Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>
Subject: Re: [antitrust-policy] Should the IETF allow discussion of licensing costs
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One way would be to prohibit only "collective negotiation of disclosed royalty terms" or something along those lines. Thus, discussion that falls short of "collective negotiation" would be allowed. On 1/20/12, Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> wrote: > > > On 01/20/2012 09:14 PM, Russ Housley wrote: >>> >>>>> - discuss licensing costs of essential patent claims associated with >>>>> different technical approaches; >>> >>> This point in the strawman has lead to a disagreement. Some say that >>> this should not be allowed, and they point to the policies of other SDOs >>> that prohibit it. On the other side of this issue, Jorge points out that >>> these SDOs are being very conservative, and he says that it is not >>> prohibited by current antitrust and competitive laws. >>> >>> This leads me to a question: Does the IETF need to be able to include >>> discussion of licensing costs? In other words, is it sufficient to >>> distinguish between 'royalty free' and 'not royalty free'? >>> >>> Russ >>> >>> Russ -- I'd rephrase this last question, as I believe that most people >>> said that mere disclosure of licensing costs did not bother them, but >>> some felt uncomfortable with discussion of licensing costs. Maybe it is >>> most accurate to ask: >>> >>> 1. Should disclosure of licensing terms be allowed? >>> 2. Should disclosure of licensing terms be required? >>> 3. If you said yes to either 1 or 2, should discussion of those >>> licensing costs be allowed? >> >> Jorge: >> >> The current IPR rules allow disclosure of terms. Most organizations that >> do something other than the non-assert approach have chosen to commit to >> reasonable and non-discriminatory license. That commitment does not >> actually tell us the cost. This policy is not the place to require the >> disclosure of terms. It a change is desired in that area, it ought to be >> discussed on the the IPR mail list. >> >> So, if terms are disclosed, do we want to allow discussion of them? > > We need to be able to understand any disclosed terms. There are > various IPR disclosures that have been posted that I don't > understand. E.g. if the terms are RF for a standard but the > document is informational etc. > > That kind of "discussion" needs to be allowed or else the > WG cannot really make a good decision. > > I don't know how to sensibly draw a line between that, and > what we don't want to see, e.g. haggling over the price. > > S. > >> >> Russ >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> antitrust-policy mailing list >> antitrust-policy@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/antitrust-policy >
- [antitrust-policy] New Non-WG Mailing List: antit… IETF Secretariat
- Re: [antitrust-policy] An Antitrust Policy for th… Russ Housley
- Re: [antitrust-policy] An Antitrust Policy for th… Russ Housley
- Re: [antitrust-policy] An Antitrust Policy for th… Marshall Eubanks
- Re: [antitrust-policy] An Antitrust Policy for th… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [antitrust-policy] An Antitrust Policy for th… Stephan Wenger
- Re: [antitrust-policy] An Antitrust Policy for th… Jorge Contreras
- Re: [antitrust-policy] An Antitrust Policy for th… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [antitrust-policy] An Antitrust Policy for th… Jorge Contreras
- Re: [antitrust-policy] An Antitrust Policy for th… Stephan Wenger
- Re: [antitrust-policy] An Antitrust Policy for th… Stephan Wenger
- Re: [antitrust-policy] An Antitrust Policy for th… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [antitrust-policy] An Antitrust Policy for th… Jorge Contreras
- [antitrust-policy] Proprietary information [An An… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [antitrust-policy] Proprietary information [A… Jorge Contreras
- Re: [antitrust-policy] An Antitrust Policy for th… Rigo Wenning
- Re: [antitrust-policy] An Antitrust Policy for th… Jorge Contreras
- [antitrust-policy] Should the IETF allow discussi… Russ Housley
- Re: [antitrust-policy] Should the IETF allow disc… Jorge Contreras
- Re: [antitrust-policy] Should the IETF allow disc… Stephan Wenger
- Re: [antitrust-policy] Should the IETF allow disc… Russ Housley
- Re: [antitrust-policy] Should the IETF allow disc… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [antitrust-policy] Should the IETF allow disc… Jorge Contreras
- [antitrust-policy] how does that affect those wit… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [antitrust-policy] how does that affect those… Jorge Contreras
- Re: [antitrust-policy] how does that affect those… Marshall Eubanks
- Re: [antitrust-policy] how does that affect those… Russ Housley
- Re: [antitrust-policy] Should the IETF allow disc… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [antitrust-policy] Should the IETF allow disc… Jorge Contreras
- Re: [antitrust-policy] how does that affect those… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [antitrust-policy] An Antitrust Policy for th… Thomas Narten
- Re: [antitrust-policy] Should the IETF allow disc… Thomas Narten
- Re: [antitrust-policy] how does that affect those… Marshall Eubanks
- Re: [antitrust-policy] how does that affect those… Jorge Contreras
- Re: [antitrust-policy] how does that affect those… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [antitrust-policy] how does that affect those… Thomas Narten
- Re: [antitrust-policy] how does that affect those… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [antitrust-policy] Should the IETF allow disc… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [antitrust-policy] how does that affect those… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [antitrust-policy] how does that affect those… david.black
- Re: [antitrust-policy] how does that affect those… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [antitrust-policy] how does that affect those… david.black
- Re: [antitrust-policy] how does that affect those… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [antitrust-policy] how does that affect those… david.black
- Re: [antitrust-policy] how does that affect those… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [antitrust-policy] how does that affect those… david.black
- Re: [antitrust-policy] how does that affect those… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [antitrust-policy] back to what problem are w… John Levine
- Re: [antitrust-policy] back to what problem are w… George Willingmyre
- Re: [antitrust-policy] how does that affect those… Rigo Wenning
- Re: [antitrust-policy] how does that affect those… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [antitrust-policy] how does that affect those… Jorge Contreras
- Re: [antitrust-policy] how does that affect those… Stephan Wenger
- Re: [antitrust-policy] how does that affect those… John Levine
- Re: [antitrust-policy] how does that affect those… david.black
- Re: [antitrust-policy] how does that affect those… John Levine
- Re: [antitrust-policy] how does that affect those… david.black
- Re: [antitrust-policy] how does that affect those… Rigo Wenning