Re: IETF LLC & IETF Participation from USA-sanctioned countries

[Brian E Carpenter <[e-mail]>]

s/IETF2.0/IASA2.0/

sorry

Regards
   Brian

On 05-Mar-21 09:03, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> On 05-Mar-21 00:44, Stewart Bryant wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On 3 Mar 2021, at 22:14, Andrew Sullivan <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>>>
>>> The problem is that there isn't an alternative to living with OFAC, because the Internet Society is incorporated in the United States and the IETF LLC is (a disregarded entity that is in some sense) a ypart of the Internet Society.  There are structural reasons why incorporating the Internet Society outside that United States is not a practical possibility either, but the reasons for this are probably best discussed on a list about the Internet Society rather than the IETF.
>>
>> Incorporation in Switzerland, or running under the umbrella of the UN 
> 
> Those are two very, very different things. And you wouldn't "incorporate" in Switzerland, you would create some other kind of entity (most likely called a "fondation" in Geneva or a "Stiftung" in Zurich) and negotiate NGO status with the Swiss authorities, because being an NGO is not a binary issue at all; it's a very broad umbrella. Not being a Swiss lawyer, I don't pretend to understand it, although I was the first President of the former Geneva chapter of the Internet Society, which I seem to remember was a "fondation" under Geneva law but (since its activities were local) never attempted to get formal NGO status. So yes, this would be an option IMHO, but with many financial implications as others have noted.
> 
> As for "under the UN" there is zero chance politically; the ITU would win that one. The members of the UN are national governments and an out-of-control rabble like the IETF would be laughed out of the room.
> 
>> seems to be the approach that most truly neutral global players  take, and I wonder if IETF needs to seriously consider that.
> 
> It was seriously considered during the IETF2.0 process, and rejected. (I was in the rough. Most IETF participants simply ignored the discussion.)
> 
>> The IETF are the technical custodians of a global utility, where access is now pretty much a human right, and yet we still seem to be subjected to a lot of control and constraints by the USG.
> 
> I hope you don't prefer a lot of control and constraints by the UN.
> 
>    Brian
>