Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affecting IETF operations

Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> Mon, 07 March 2016 03:55 UTC

Return-Path: <randy@psg.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 742311A8883 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 6 Mar 2016 19:55:09 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -0.002
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pX1w2uHcjPBl for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 6 Mar 2016 19:55:08 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4A1081A887F for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sun, 6 Mar 2016 19:55:08 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <randy@psg.com>) id 1acmG2-0007xF-34; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 03:54:58 +0000
Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2016 19:54:57 -0800
Message-ID: <m2lh5veycu.wl%randy@psg.com>
From: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
To: Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net>
Subject: Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affecting IETF operations
In-Reply-To: <EDFB7D0B-2A49-46BD-A84C-0E1FA07793FA@piuha.net>
References: <E83FC2B4-867D-44C9-AE1B-F4C414ABD041@piuha.net> <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657DF2330@dfweml701-chm> <EDFB7D0B-2A49-46BD-A84C-0E1FA07793FA@piuha.net>
User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI)
MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.7 - "Harue")
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/q5BElsliUIdU6gvrdzNng3CdggY>
Cc: IETF <ietf@ietf.org>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2016 03:55:09 -0000

>> Very interesting write up. IMHO, the hardest challenge facing IETF is
>> that "Internet has been working over several decades". 
>> All the obvious technologies needed to enable Internet have been
>> developed already. All that left are tweaks and minor improvement. 

one of my faves

It's perfectly appropriate to be upset.  I thought of it in a slightly
different way--like a space that we were exploring and, in the early days,
we figured out this consistent path through the space: IP, TCP, and so on.
What's been happening over the last few years is that the IETF is filling
the rest of the space with every alternative approach, not necessarily any
better.  Every possible alternative is now being written down.  And it's not
useful.  -- Jon Postel