Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affecting IETF operations
Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com> Tue, 22 March 2016 18:57 UTC
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Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 14:57:27 -0400
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Subject: Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affecting IETF operations
From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>
To: "Eggert, Lars" <lars@netapp.com>
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On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 6:02 AM, Eggert, Lars <lars@netapp.com> wrote: > On 2016-03-22, at 2:03, l.wood@surrey.ac.uk wrote: >>> The mode of failure I keep seeing in IETF is the following: >>> >>> 1) A very narrow scope is decided 'to focus' >>> >>> 2) Poorly thought out aspects of the proposal are defended because the >>> problems they cause are 'out of scope' >>> >>> 3) The resulting RFC describes a protocol that is worse than useless. >>> >>> 4) The proposal fails in the market. >>> >>> 5) The experience is used as 'proof' that the problem is insoluble. (optional) >> >> This holds for the IRTF too - though step 5 there is 'let's form an IETF workgroup to push it into adoption! This time for sure!' > > No, it doesn't "hold for the IRTF." Please don't generalize from your dislike of the DTNRG's bundle protocol to the DTNRG as a whole, and then to the entire IRTF. I don't see how it applies to IRTF since the output there isn't meant to be a widely used protocol. I don't object to taking complex, difficult issues off the table in a WG. But what I do object to is that folk take a whole load of use cases and requirements off the table because they don't personally care for them and then argue that there is 'no difference' between two protocol choices because it doesn't affect their pet use case.
- Getting off Things - namely this mailing list tom p.
- Observations on (non-technical) changes affecting… Jari Arkko
- RE: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Linda Dunbar
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Jari Arkko
- RE: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Dave Cridland
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Randy Bush
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Melinda Shore
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Rich Kulawiec
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Randy Bush
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Security for the Internet of Things and Other Thi… Jari Arkko
- RE: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Dirk Kutscher
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Jari Arkko
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Michael Richardson
- Re: Security for the Internet of Things and Other… Michael Richardson
- Re: Security for the Internet of Things and Other… Carsten Bormann
- Getting on with Things Eliot Lear
- Re: Security for the Internet of Things and Other… Theodore V Faber
- RE: Getting on with Things Adrian Farrel
- Re: Getting on with Things Carsten Bormann
- Re: Getting on with Things Stewart Bryant
- Re: Getting on with Things Carsten Bormann
- Re: Getting on with Things Stewart Bryant
- Re: Getting on with Things Eliot Lear
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Getting on with Things Michael Richardson
- Re: Getting on with Things Carsten Bormann
- Re: Getting on with Things Medel Ramirez
- Re: Security for the Internet of Things and Other… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Getting on with Things Gmail
- Re: Security for the Internet of Things and Other… Livingood, Jason
- Re: Security for the Internet of Things and Other… Scott Kitterman
- Re: Security for the Internet of Things and Other… Eliot Lear
- Re: Security for the Internet of Things and Other… Stewart Bryant
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Charles Eckel (eckelcu)
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Dave Crocker
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Jari Arkko
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Charles Eckel (eckelcu)
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… l.wood
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… George Michaelson
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Eggert, Lars
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… lloyd.wood
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Eggert, Lars
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… S Moonesamy
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Joseph Lorenzo Hall
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Joseph Lorenzo Hall
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… S Moonesamy
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Randy Bush
- RE: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Russ White
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Melinda Shore
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Eliot Lear