The purpose of blue sheets [Re: Blue sheet harvest]
Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi> Sat, 05 April 2008 10:56 UTC
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Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 13:54:59 +0300
From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: "Scott O. Bradner" <sob@harvard.edu>
Subject: The purpose of blue sheets [Re: Blue sheet harvest]
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Has the purpose and the expectations of the blue sheets been established somewhere? So far I've seen (or sen folks justifying) the following use cases: 1) gauging the number of people in the room (for room size allocations for the next meeting) 2) identifying later on whether someone sat in the audience (for IPR purposes, not clear to what benefit exactly) 3) identifying previously-unknown people who spoke up in the mike and said their name but you weren't sure if you got it right (for the minutes). (i.e. identifying who made a Contribution in IPR rules sense) 4) identifying a person like 3) who has never posted on the mailing list and contacting him/her about the comment (otherwise you wouldn't know the email address) 5) contacting participants later on about future activities in the area (e.g. BOF list creation). 6) WG chair giving extra advice that if you mark an "X" beside your email address, s/he will subscribe you to the mailing list. 1) does not require email addresses, and possibly not even blue sheets. This seems like the typical reason given by the WG chairs for the blue sheets ("if you don't sign, we won't get a room next time.."). I'll observe that 2) appears to be useless because whether or not a name exists is no proof one way or the other. The critical thing here is whether someone made a Contribution (in the IPR sense) at the meeting. So, it's likely necessary to be able to identify everyone that speaks up in the mike, but whether or not the blue sheets is the right tool to do that is debatable. 3) and 4) seem like useful goals, but yet again, this seems an issue of identifying the person speaking up in the mike, not who sat in the room. 5) only seems necessary with BOFs etc that have not been managed properly (a mailing list needs to be set up in advance in any case; if persons are not signed up on appropriate lists, mass-mailing them (isn't that spamming?) doesn't seem to be a very useful excercise). I don't know how useful 6) is in practise; anyone should be clueful enough to sign up on the mailing list herself. Some more below, On Fri, 4 Apr 2008, Scott O. Bradner wrote: >> and signing the sheet is strictly voluntary to date > > well, there are no guards with guns watching but someone who > decides to not sign is not being honest about their participation I've personally used somewhat looser definition. I don't bother to sign those blue sheets that circulate in WG rooms where I just go (for the lack of better place) to read my email and get a bit of idea what's going on. I don't intend to say anything on the mike, I have no interest in participating in that WG otherwise and I don't think I should be counted when it gets decided what room size is appropriate for the WG in the next IETF. How exactly is it wrong not to sign the blue sheet in this case? Another category is "after WG meeting X ends, go to the room used by WG meeting Y to see what's going on there". At that point, blue sheets have already circulated and it seems too much of a bother to sign anything anymore. In this case, you might even say something in the mike; whether your name exists on the blue sheet or not doesn't guarantee whether you were present or not, and I don't see it practical to change the procedures to be any stricter. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ IETF mailing list IETF@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
- Re: Blue sheet harvest Bill Manning
- Blue Sheet Change Proposal Ray Pelletier
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Mark Andrews
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Marshall Eubanks
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Eric Burger
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Scott O. Bradner
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Eric Rescorla
- RE: Blue Sheet Change Proposal john.loughney
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Marshall Eubanks
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Cullen Jennings
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Eric Rescorla
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Scott O. Bradner
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Rob Austein
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Alain Durand
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Samuel Weiler
- RE: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Dave Crocker
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal john.loughney
- RE: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Olaf Kolkman
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Dave Crocker
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Harald Alvestrand
- Re: Blue sheet harvest Scott O. Bradner
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Barry Leiba
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Suresh Krishnan
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Mr Kim Sanders
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Tony Hansen
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Michael Thomas
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Dave Crocker
- Re: Blue sheet harvest Bill Manning
- Re: Blue sheet harvest Scott O. Bradner
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Eric Rescorla
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Derek Atkins
- Re: Blue sheet harvest Theodore Tso
- Re: Blue sheet harvest Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal John C Klensin
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Bill Manning
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal David Conrad
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal John C Klensin
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal John Levine
- Re: Blue sheet harvest Bill Manning
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Bill Manning
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Marshall Eubanks
- Attendee lists in proceedings [Re: Blue Sheet Cha… Brian E Carpenter
- RE: Blue sheet harvest Hadriel Kaplan
- The purpose of blue sheets [Re: Blue sheet harves… Pekka Savola
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal John G. Scudder
- RE: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Richard Shockey
- RE: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Wes Beebee (wbeebee)
- RE: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Dean Anderson
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal TS Glassey
- Re: Blue Sheet Change Proposal Dean Anderson