Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment
Teco Boot <teco@inf-net.nl> Wed, 13 November 2013 15:38 UTC
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From: Teco Boot <teco@inf-net.nl>
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Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 16:37:58 +0100
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References: <72FB622921C13746AD6349E70A8D9F307D9192F7@EXC-MBX03.tsn.tno.nl> <CAK=bVC85XAXR3Zkwq+JwELF-dvgrKwbowWCvwvnjeVn7VStnbw@mail.gmail.com> <72FB622921C13746AD6349E70A8D9F307D9193CD@EXC-MBX03.tsn.tno.nl> <5A8A5085482DA84995F4E70F5093AB50268E6C@XCH-BLV-503.nw.nos.boeing.com> <B2BA430A-F4E6-4DED-A7BB-7282A22802B7@inf-net.nl> <D02397F1-9D1B-4B36-81D0-4585ACDBA34A@gmail.com> <5D184300-2D97-4EC1-8D91-76D4A79B2BDA@inf-net.nl> <DDAE98C5-520E-4F8F-9F9B-2AB9A15A70EF@cisco.com> <0541163b-2d1c-4afd-ad06-ba9a25744310@SUCNPTEXC01.COM.AD.UK.DS.CORP> <B177F831FB91F242972D0C35F6A0733106FB0425@SUCNPTEXM01.com.ad.uk.ds.corp> <14B5C326-6499-439D-BC23-BB39A376825C@cisco.com> <CAGnRvuoxD_dxdoD_8qbHhq--6AF=2B7wNFEE5Xz=vKNwnBhhZw@mail.gmail.com> <9EB171E6-62E6-4136-BFDB-6FEB8DF23B74@cisco.com> <cb165b80-275e-45ff-ae0e-8ca5354a3568@SUCNPTEXC01.COM.AD.UK.DS.CORP> <B177F831FB91F242972D0C35F6A0733106FB081B@SUCNPTEXM01.com.ad.uk.ds.corp> <cb12007d-dfb9-406b-8e8d-3b5252421cb7@SUCNPTEXC01.COM.AD.UK.D S.CORP> <e3f09407-85de-4ffc-878b-1fbe74b587ec@SUCNPTEXC01.COM.AD.UK.DS.CORP> <CAGnRvupnOtWDGRWOsgteh6SCkuTwWBjQQrdbroW2MSA0c8z6tA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Henning Rogge <hrogge@googlemail.com>
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Cc: "DLEP Research Group (manet-dlep-rg@ietf.org)" <manet-dlep-rg@ietf.org>, Stan Ratliff <sratliff@cisco.com>, "Dowdell, John" <John.Dowdell@cassidian.com>, "Taylor, Rick" <Rick.Taylor@cassidian.com>
Subject: Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment
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Op 13 nov. 2013, om 13:26 heeft Henning Rogge <hrogge@googlemail.com> het volgende geschreven: > I think this "complexity issue" is a null-argument. > > IP capable radios/modems are complex devices, most of them have HTTP > based user interfaces, SNMP services and complete software stack. > Providing a TCP server socket is trivial for them and is not an > additional complexity. +1 Verified by team member. He had concerns on this DLEP effort, all of this can be done with SNMP, he said. He is an expert on using SNMP on somewhat historic devices. He has no doubt the radio can support TCP servers and would be amazed if a radio vendor would not be willing to implement a TCP server. Teco > > Henning Rogge > > On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 1:14 PM, Dowdell, John > <John.Dowdell@cassidian.com> wrote: >> Just to add my two pennyworth. >> >> We need to agree that the operating scenario is one router and N modems. If we do need to move to more than one router and N modems, the situation is more complex in terms of who does the TCP serving. Can we agree that please? >> >> Also, given the resistance we seem to be experiencing from modem manufacturers to get involved, I would want to give them the least complex half of the implementation. This means they will not have to upgrade hardware, TCP stacks and/or operating systems beyond that which is necessary. I would suggest that we want the modem manufacturers to add value in extracting relevant metrics from the modem and pass through DLEP to the router or other interested process, rather than insisting they upgrade their TCP stacks. >> >> John >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: manet-dlep-rg-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:manet-dlep-rg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Henning Rogge >> Sent: 13 November 2013 10:19 >> To: Taylor, Rick >> Cc: DLEP Research Group (manet-dlep-rg@ietf.org); Teco Boot; Stan Ratliff >> Subject: Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment >> >> I think we can even leave out the TCP address (and maybe even the >> port) by just demanding that the UDP Peer_Discovery has to come from >> the relevant address (and port) of the TCP socket. >> >> I cannot see an use case for using a different source port/address for >> the UDP Peer_Discovery at the moment. >> >> Henning Rogge >> >> On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Taylor, Rick >> <Rick.Taylor@cassidian.com> wrote: >>> My thoughts: >>> >>> The principle of keeping the modem code as small and light as possible is good. In general modems are not only getting bigger and smarter, they are also getting physically smaller and lower power. Routers however are not getting so small so quickly, so even though there are full TCP stacks in many radios, we should not force a full server implementation on them. >>> >>> So, Lets keep the 3-way handshake we have discussed, but make the router the advertiser/server: >>> >>> >>> Router Modem >>> =================================================== >>> >>> 1) TCP Listen() >>> >>> 2) UDP Peer_Discovery -------------------------------> >>> + Version TLV >>> + TCP address:port >>> >>> 3) TCP Connect() >>> >>> 4) <-------------------------------- Peer_Initialize() >>> + Version TLV >>> + Ident TLV >>> + Mandatory TLVs >>> >>> 5) Peer_Initialize_Ack ------------------------------> >>> + Status TLV >>> + Ident TLV >>> >>> I withdraw my suggestion about cookies. As Teco has pointed out, just do security properly (TLS or IPSec or whatever). Putting in a lightweight/half-baked authentication process in the protocol may lead some implementers to assume this provides security. >>> >>> I have also suggested just Version TLV and TCP endpoint address in the UDP discovery packet to save space. This should allow a listening modem to decide whether to start a session with a router before TCP connect. >>> >>> At step 5, the router has the opportunity to send a negative ACK, by including an error Status TLV in the Peer_Inialize_Ack and then shutdown the connection. This captures Teco's SHOULD condition "The router SHOULD NOT start a session with a modem that does not advertise mandatory metric TLVs" >>> >>> Would it help to have a state machine in the draft? >>> >>> Comments? >>> >>> Rick Taylor >>> The information contained within this e-mail and any files attached to this e-mail is private and in addition may include commercially sensitive information. The contents of this e-mail are for the intended recipient only and therefore if you wish to disclose the information contained within this e-mail or attached files, please contact the sender prior to any such disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying or distribution is prohibited. Please also contact the sender and inform them of the error and delete the e-mail, including any attached files from your system. Cassidian Limited, Registered Office : Quadrant House, Celtic Springs, Coedkernew, Newport, NP10 8FZ Company No: 04191036 http://www.cassidian.com >> >> >> >> -- >> We began as wanderers, and we are wanderers still. We have lingered >> long enough on the shores of the cosmic ocean. We are ready at last to >> set sail for the stars - Carl Sagan >> _______________________________________________ >> manet-dlep-rg mailing list >> manet-dlep-rg@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet-dlep-rg >> The information contained within this e-mail and any files attached to this e-mail is private and in addition may include commercially sensitive information. The contents of this e-mail are for the intended recipient only and therefore if you wish to disclose the information contained within this e-mail or attached files, please contact the sender prior to any such disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying or distribution is prohibited. Please also contact the sender and inform them of the error and delete the e-mail, including any attached files from your system. Cassidian Limited, Registered Office : Quadrant House, Celtic Springs, Coedkernew, Newport, NP10 8FZ Company No: 04191036 http://www.cassidian.com > > > > -- > We began as wanderers, and we are wanderers still. We have lingered > long enough on the shores of the cosmic ocean. We are ready at last to > set sail for the stars - Carl Sagan
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] notes DLEP meeting @ IETF88 Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] notes DLEP meeting @ IETF88 Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] notes DLEP meeting @ IETF88 Joe Macker
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] notes DLEP meeting @ IETF88 Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] notes DLEP meeting @ IETF88 Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] notes DLEP meeting @ IETF88 Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] notes DLEP meeting @ IETF88 Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] notes DLEP meeting @ IETF88 Henning Rogge
- [manet-dlep-rg] Mandatory processing TLVs by rout… Teco Boot
- [manet-dlep-rg] Resources TLV Teco Boot
- [manet-dlep-rg] Latency Teco Boot
- [manet-dlep-rg] Rename Neighbor to Destination Teco Boot
- [manet-dlep-rg] Peer termination Teco Boot
- [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Teco Boot
- [manet-dlep-rg] Multicast in dlep-04 Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Resources TLV Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Peer termination Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Multicast in dlep-04 Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Mandatory processing TLVs by … Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Mandatory processing TLVs by … Henning Rogge
- [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Resources TLV Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Peer termination Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Mandatory processing TLVs by … Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Multicast in dlep-04 Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] notes DLEP meeting @ IETF88 Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] notes DLEP meeting @ IETF88 Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Taylor, Rick
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] notes DLEP meeting @ IETF88 Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] notes DLEP meeting @ IETF88 Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Taylor, Rick
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Mandatory processing TLVs by … Taylor, Rick
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Peer termination Taylor, Rick
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Resources TLV Taylor, Rick
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Resources TLV Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Latency Taylor, Rick
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Latency Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Latency Taylor, Rick
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Latency Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Latency Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Peer termination Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Latency Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Peer termination Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Taylor, Rick
- [manet-dlep-rg] Draft-04 text Taylor, Rick
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Peer termination Taylor, Rick
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Latency Taylor, Rick
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Latency Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Draft-04 text Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Latency Taylor, Rick
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Taylor, Rick
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Taylor, Rick
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Draft-04 text Taylor, Rick
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Latency Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] notes DLEP meeting @ IETF88 Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP TLV length Taylor, Rick
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Latency Taylor, Rick
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Mandatory processing TLVs by … Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Latency Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Mandatory processing TLVs by … Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP TLV length Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Latency Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Mandatory processing TLVs by … Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Latency Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Resources TLV Ulrich Herberg
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] notes DLEP meeting @ IETF88 Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] TCP clients, servers, and dis… Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] notes DLEP meeting @ IETF88 Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP multicast address Martin Duke
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP multicast address Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] notes DLEP meeting @ IETF88 Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Resources TLV Ulrich Herberg
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Taylor, Rick
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Latency Taylor, Rick
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Mandatory processing TLVs by … Taylor, Rick
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Taylor, Rick
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Dowdell, John
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Dowdell, John
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] Resources TLV Taylor, Rick
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP multicast address Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Taylor, Rick
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Taylor, Rick
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP multicast address Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP session establishment Teco Boot
- [manet-dlep-rg] manet-dlep-rg: Martin's membership Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] manet-dlep-rg: Martin's membe… Ulrich Herberg
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] manet-dlep-rg: Martin's membe… Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP multicast address John Dowdell
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP multicast address Teco Boot
- [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP multicast address Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] notes DLEP meeting @ IETF88 Duke, Martin
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] notes DLEP meeting @ IETF88 Duke, Martin
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] notes DLEP meeting @ IETF88 Duke, Martin
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] notes DLEP meeting @ IETF88 Duke, Martin
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] notes DLEP meeting @ IETF88 Duke, Martin
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP multicast address Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] notes DLEP meeting @ IETF88 Duke, Martin
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] manet-dlep-rg: Martin's membe… Duke, Martin
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP multicast address Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP multicast address Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] notes DLEP meeting @ IETF88 Martin Duke
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP multicast address Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP multicast address Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP multicast address Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP multicast address Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] TCP clients, servers, and dis… Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP multicast address Taylor, Rick
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] notes DLEP meeting @ IETF88 Taylor, Rick
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] notes DLEP meeting @ IETF88 Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP multicast address Martin Duke
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] TCP clients, servers, and dis… Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP multicast address Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] notes DLEP meeting @ IETF88 Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP multicast address Rick Taylor
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] notes DLEP meeting @ IETF88 Rick Taylor
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP multicast address Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] notes DLEP meeting @ IETF88 Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP multicast address Rick Taylor
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] notes DLEP meeting @ IETF88 Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] notes DLEP meeting @ IETF88 Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] notes DLEP meeting @ IETF88 Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] notes DLEP meeting @ IETF88 Rick Taylor
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] notes DLEP meeting @ IETF88 Rick Taylor
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] notes DLEP meeting @ IETF88 Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] notes DLEP meeting @ IETF88 Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP multicast address Martin Duke
- [manet-dlep-rg] TCP clients, servers, and discove… Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] TCP clients, servers, and dis… Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] TCP clients, servers, and dis… Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] TCP clients, servers, and dis… Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] TCP clients, servers, and dis… Taylor, Rick
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] TCP clients, servers, and dis… Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] TCP clients, servers, and dis… Taylor, Rick
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] TCP clients, servers, and dis… John Dowdell
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] TCP clients, servers, and dis… Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] TCP clients, servers, and dis… Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] TCP clients, servers, and dis… John Dowdell
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] TCP clients, servers, and dis… Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] TCP clients, servers, and dis… Taylor, Rick
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] TCP clients, servers, and dis… Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] TCP clients, servers, and dis… Rick Taylor
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] TCP clients, servers, and dis… Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] TCP clients, servers, and dis… Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] TCP clients, servers, and dis… Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] TCP clients, servers, and dis… Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP multicast address Martin Duke
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] DLEP multicast address Stan Ratliff (sratliff)