Why last calls matter more than ever [Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announcement list]
Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Thu, 30 September 2021 01:00 UTC
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Subject: Why last calls matter more than ever [Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announcement list]
To: Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>
Cc: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com>, IETF <ietf@ietf.org>, Jay Daley <exec-director@ietf.org>, Lars Eggert <lars@eggert.org>, "STARK, BARBARA H" <bs7652@att.com>, Working Chairs <wgchairs@ietf.org>
References: <f22d22ea-80da-e595-d91f-c577461766a3@huitema.net> <44B61547-1B28-4D1C-88C1-4AD7BA7F9639@lear.ch> <69E7C755-D09C-447B-B327-4F13C19A3EED@eggert.org> <475d7515-f71a-c3f0-e455-03336226cc47@lear.ch> <04F3603A-514B-49DF-81C5-36023CBBB69E@eggert.org> <CALaySJLseu4Ci_=-OZDN1NKLimnfLSjnPFyv2bwOnOxL6q4RGg@mail.gmail.com> <29d2a637-f629-b494-1cb5-75510e6149dc@isode.com> <DM6PR02MB6924C37148A63E27218142B3C3A99@DM6PR02MB6924.namprd02.prod.outlook.com> <7c882dc9-6cce-d3dc-f098-71049da44c1a@gmail.com> <1C0F818E-A3BD-4CA7-B29F-75FC4C80C1AF@ietf.org> <950df822-4255-3b79-0be7-1468e0cbb727@gmail.com> <CALaySJLsFTaocEEtBMrn+WFVkvV5_6X533h1jfGPYdAA5ABtAQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d4439e89-f040-94a7-c17b-10504b95e736@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2021 14:00:15 +1300
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On 30-Sep-21 12:07, Barry Leiba wrote: >> I'm arguing that Last Call messages are of such importance to the >> standards-making goal of the IETF that we really do have to send them >> to as much of the community as we can. > > The trouble with that is that if you really believe that and take it completely, we would be posting last-call announcements to every mailing list we have: all the WG lists, all the non-WG lists, all the lists that remain from closed groups, and whatever else. I think few of us would like that. > > If my last sentence is correct, then we really do have to understand that it’s more important to make sure that participants understand the importance of last call and where to find the last-call announcements… and then leave it to the community to do what they’re willing to do with that. And that does not meal trying to force those announcements on people who don’t want them. > > It was different when the IETF was smaller. We need to accept that things have changed. Absolutely. But that's exactly why I'm banging on about last calls, because the IETF is bigger than it was in 1995 and because we have multiple silos. I'm all in favour of reducing mundane announcements, so that people actually see the ones from outside their silo that are not mundane. How would it be if a year's tally looked like this? 1. Announcements sent manually by <various roles> = 284 2. Last call announcements for I-Ds = 174 (+ 4 for other actions) 3. Weekly summaries of other announcements = 52 I make that a 60% reduction in traffic. Brian
- Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announcement l… IETF Chair
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Melchior Aelmans
- IETF calendar (was: Re: Proposal: an "important-n… Toerless Eckert
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Bob Hinden
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Christian Huitema
- RE: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Adrian Farrel
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Eliot Lear
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Salz, Rich
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… David Noveck
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Tim Wicinski
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Lucas Pardue
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… John C Klensin
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… tom petch
- Re: [irsg] Proposal: an "important-news" IETF ann… Lars Eggert
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Lars Eggert
- Re: [irsg] Proposal: an "important-news" IETF ann… Lars Eggert
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Lars Eggert
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Eliot Lear
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Lars Eggert
- RE: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… MORTON JR., AL
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Stephen Farrell
- RE: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Eliot Lear
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Carsten Bormann
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Barry Leiba
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Alexey Melnikov
- RE: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… MORTON JR., AL
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Robert Sparks
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Michael Richardson
- RE: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… John C Klensin
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Barry Leiba
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Barry Leiba
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… John C Klensin
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… tom petch
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… tom petch
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Michael Richardson
- making upcoming calendar more useful Michael Richardson
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Jay Daley
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Barry Leiba
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Jay Daley
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Martin Thomson
- Why last calls matter more than ever [Re: Proposa… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: making upcoming calendar more useful John C Klensin
- Re: making upcoming calendar more useful Warren Kumari
- Re: making upcoming calendar more useful Barry Leiba
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… tom petch
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Michael Richardson
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… tom petch
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… John C Klensin
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Michael Richardson
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Robert Sparks
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… Michael Richardson
- Re: Proposal: an "important-news" IETF announceme… John C Klensin
- The links page [was: something else] Brian E Carpenter