The links page [was: something else]

Brian E Carpenter <> Fri, 01 October 2021 20:27 UTC

Return-Path: <>
Received: from localhost (localhost []) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1663E3A096F; Fri, 1 Oct 2021 13:27:39 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.098
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key)
Received: from ([]) by localhost ( []) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z7CJvpTYuBpQ; Fri, 1 Oct 2021 13:27:34 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ( [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::536]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2BC2A3A0977; Fri, 1 Oct 2021 13:27:34 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by with SMTP id r201so4526465pgr.4; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 13:27:34 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;; s=20210112; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=4cWX6EvnXs7nJLjUEUdn/u3lpm/oua+FSsMllyFojj8=; b=VV8gq/Ftjz0XdZa1AsOr6yaiSGwsRMqs+tZ+7QJ0CghtupugxsDDOhyc1zjxfwZnvD aXAaTNRO+0qX1eSQ/gOCNRwkYBk64kjpi5olHF9dw+EhUjdDNMugeBRJ7PUMRxNvGnV5 lvqctKXbIifO822/kjtMJJX95+zHG+b+Lv01d42T37HPJCCThtD653DCY3dyOIdhnnpk KPZfWpnhtyJZbIFkbUF2AqsOtbanPNaW4gTCYj9UAFdzvCg9uOz3HsQo63XnH5DS18GQ QnmAB1Tc+9BfNX+ogB4yQStbIEgGmRH2nDNsrG9rJomqigjO/6e3Zg71j/Dv4S5Zchaj Yk5Q==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=4cWX6EvnXs7nJLjUEUdn/u3lpm/oua+FSsMllyFojj8=; b=GYNAXRtg3ZN63V8H7NGRPeXARNxFHjbEWqfLKf31/wfogNJTbyYC89i7cMQ2ntBvRg 5Cs3WlXjDJRBJc8N42dmM0zpnIH/em3bdh6aOlAaJjyEhql9qRWlsx/ovHY7PAODQ4iT akGj+yDrJ9T0tIYlBZk9KUStNSbK30IlrVHjNeq2c3Ve/3FsSX0mbWTt3sEm80R61uoi FsqaxmLMvM0RCRN9WV0wr8Qx6AXRyUieAmUbkoWQQWwL/JknnuKxc5+x9/RyxG+bWVON F79RNbgjWcV1uKHN0Cdz1qaFQMPQ/1Lk24OBMh1HoZZzYdz/cXf8eLxthbehbhzbOZyL KqMQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531vp+HCJwPu0Nhv0P6MwFXLbg1/FQCgmQtteXt50z/3f3YWe8jZ 627JXcJt3StW9F7xUPeRnVe7q1RPzeputg==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz9zVGjtH2pE3cKQyuFLWp6B87ysyPff2WHczPqMtxcmfot+KppgUzDl1qCVclVuwykYzVkmQ==
X-Received: by 2002:a62:8855:0:b0:44b:8cc3:8f6d with SMTP id l82-20020a628855000000b0044b8cc38f6dmr13052877pfd.44.1633120053246; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 13:27:33 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e003:11aa:d701:80b2:5c79:2266:e431? ([2406:e003:11aa:d701:80b2:5c79:2266:e431]) by with ESMTPSA id s197sm5735286pfs.141.2021. (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 01 Oct 2021 13:27:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: The links page [was: something else]
To: John C Klensin <>, Robert Sparks <>, Spencer Dawkins at IETF <>
Cc: Michael Richardson <>, Working Chairs <>, tom petch <>, IETF <>
References: <> <> <> <> <> <> <3627.1632928020@localhost> <> <29954.1633025138@localhost> <> <> <D9D2D7FF0974E6C3F00CCE65@PSB> <> <> <5C75B025FE3E8C26AE4EBD50@PSB>
From: Brian E Carpenter <>
Message-ID: <>
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2021 09:27:27 +1300
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <5C75B025FE3E8C26AE4EBD50@PSB>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <>
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Working Group Chairs <>
List-Unsubscribe: <>, <>
List-Archive: <>
List-Post: <>
List-Help: <>
List-Subscribe: <>, <>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2021 20:27:39 -0000

On 02-Oct-21 07:01, John C Klensin wrote:
> --On Friday, October 1, 2021 10:32 -0500 Robert Sparks
> <> wrote:
>> Related but apart from discussion of what summaries might be
>> sent by email -
>> There is a feed for last call documents at
>>, and a page at
>> There are several feeds, fwiw. At one point there was a menu
>> for them, but pressure to declutter the menus some time back
>> took that away. There should at least be a summary page
>> somewhere.
> Robert,
> Thanks.
> Noting that a page the IETF participants don't know about or
> don't know how to find is of limited utility, your paragraph
> above exactly, if indirectly, summarizes part of the problem.
> I've just looked at 
> and even
> (which only active participants who have been paying attention
> know how to find).
> And, if any of them contain the links you provided or even hints
> that they exist, I'm not looking hard enough.  While, again, I
> don't think that page is a substitute for well-considered Last
> Call announcements (at least to the relevant WG, maybe Area, and
> a weekly summary as others have discussed), it suggests that we
> should be looking more broadly than tweaking or subdividing
> mailing lists.  
> Some particular suggestions that I assume should be
> straightforward if others agree:
> (1) Add to the
> "links" page under "IESG", "Internet-Drafts" or both.
> (2) Add a line to the bottom of the template for Last Call
> announcements that says something like "A listing of open IETF
> Last Calls is available at
> Really a different topic, but I also think the "links" page
> should be more obviously available from the home
> page and wonder whether the Last Calls should be identified
> there too.  However, I've lost track of who the audience for
> that page is supposed to be and wonder if any evaluation is
> underway for whether that redesign is serving its intended
> purpose. 

I believe I am to blame for the existence of that page, which
largely speaking does what the old IETF sidebar did.
(For the nostalgic, see

fwiw, I agree that it should be more obvious and cover more