Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s standardisedprotocols//re: draft-xu-behave-nat-state-sync-00
"Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com> Wed, 02 December 2009 04:45 UTC
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Date: Tue, 01 Dec 2009 23:45:48 -0500
From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
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To: Cameron Byrne <cb.list6@gmail.com>
References: <4B156B5C.7060800@viagenie.ca> <003401ca72f1$7d0d0310$d40c6f0a@china.huawei.com> <000001ca72f4$1e1a30a0$c3f0200a@cisco.com> <bcff0fba0912012037m3c24bbccyf6d9dde59299362d@mail.gmail.com>
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Cc: behave@ietf.org, Xu Xiaohu <xuxh@huawei.com>, Dan Wing <dwing@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s standardisedprotocols//re: draft-xu-behave-nat-state-sync-00
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I believe we have agreed that we want to support the configuration of multiple stateful NAT64s in a cluster sharing state (using the same prefix, backing each other up / sharing load / ... ). While it is true that one can deploy that with solutions from a single vendor, it seems natural and consistent with the rest of what we do here that we want to allow folks to build such a cluster using devices from different vendors. Arguing about why an operator might or might not do that is a waste of time. Some will want multiple vendors. Some will want a single vendor. Some will want the ability to migrate to a new vendor. For the IETF therefore, the protocol for the state sharing seems a sensible thing to standardize. Yours, Joel Cameron Byrne wrote: > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Dan Wing <dwing@cisco.com> wrote: >> ... >>>> * Cluster = A set of synchronized NAT64 boxes sharing a >>>> single Pref64::/n. >>> Does that mean a set of NAT64 boxes within a cluster should >>> be from a single >>> vendor? If so, how to deal with the case that some abnormal >>> packets cause >>> NAT boxes (using the same OS) within a cluster to crash >>> simultaneously due to a bug with that OS? >> The vendor fixes the bug. >> > > 100% agree. The counter to Xu Xiaohu's point is what happens when > vendor X sends a buggy sync update to vendor Y, and now vendor Y > crashes.... ok. We traded one unlikely (but real) bad situation for > another unlikely but bad situation. > > >> The operational complexity of running two NATs, from two different vendors, is >> very high: different CLIs, different alarming/alerting (e.g., SYSLOG, SNMP, >> per-session NAT logging), different features (e.g., IPsec Passthru, SCTP), >> different implementation of features (e.g., TCP MSS adjustment, fragmentation >> [timeouts? how much memory dedicated to reassembly? out-of-order packets >> supported?]), bandwidth and throughput (Mbps, pps), make it too hard to >> operate both NATs. > > 100% agree. > >> To my knowledge, sites do not run two different implementations of DNS servers >> (e.g., ISC BIND and InfoBlox, or Microsoft and Unbound) where both DNSs back >> up each other. Like NAT, DNS needs to be rock-solid reliable, and a single >> packet could take out a DNS server. >> >> -d >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Behave mailing list >> Behave@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/behave >> > _______________________________________________ > Behave mailing list > Behave@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/behave >
- [BEHAVE] draft-xu-behave-nat-state-sync-00 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [BEHAVE] draft-xu-behave-nat-state-sync-00 xuxiaohu 41208
- Re: [BEHAVE] draft-xu-behave-nat-state-sync-00 marcelo bagnulo braun
- Re: [BEHAVE] draft-xu-behave-nat-state-sync-00 Dean Cheng
- Re: [BEHAVE] draft-xu-behave-nat-state-sync-00 marcelo bagnulo braun
- Re: [BEHAVE] draft-xu-behave-nat-state-sync-00 Dean Cheng
- Re: [BEHAVE] draft-xu-behave-nat-state-sync-00 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [BEHAVE] draft-xu-behave-nat-state-sync-00 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [BEHAVE] draft-xu-behave-nat-state-sync-00 Jan Melen
- Re: [BEHAVE] draft-xu-behave-nat-state-sync-00 Xu Xiaohu
- Re: [BEHAVE] draft-xu-behave-nat-state-sync-00 Dean Cheng
- [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s standardi… Xu Xiaohu
- Re: [BEHAVE] draft-xu-behave-nat-state-sync-00 Simon Perreault
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Cameron Byrne
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Reinaldo Penno
- Re: [BEHAVE] draft-xu-behave-nat-state-sync-00 Jan Melen
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Simon Perreault
- Re: [BEHAVE] draft-xu-behave-nat-state-sync-00 Dave Thaler
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Xu Xiaohu
- Re: [BEHAVE] draft-xu-behave-nat-state-sync-00 Dan Wing
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Dan Wing
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Simon Perreault
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Dan Wing
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Xu Xiaohu
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Reinaldo Penno
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… marcelo bagnulo braun
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Xu Xiaohu
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… marcelo bagnulo braun
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Simon Perreault
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Cameron Byrne
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Cameron Byrne
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [BEHAVE] draft-xu-behave-nat-state-sync-00 Dean Cheng
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Christian Huitema
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Cameron Byrne
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Xu Xiaohu
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Cameron Byrne
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Xu Xiaohu
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Simon Perreault
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Cameron Byrne
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Cameron Byrne
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Dan Wing
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Simon Perreault
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Dan Wing
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Simon Perreault
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Dave Thaler
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Dan Wing
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Simon Perreault
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Cameron Byrne
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Mark Andrews
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Xu Xiaohu
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Simon Perreault
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Xu Xiaohu
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Dan Wing
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Mark Andrews
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Dan Wing
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Mark Andrews
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Dan Wing
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Dan Wing
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Cameron Byrne
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Xu Xiaohu
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Reinaldo Penno
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Mark Andrews
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Xu Xiaohu
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Dan Wing
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Dan Wing
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Mark Andrews
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Mark Andrews
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Cameron Byrne
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Dan Wing
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Simon Perreault
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Mark Andrews
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Reinaldo Penno
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Simon Perreault
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Reinaldo Penno
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Simon Perreault
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Reinaldo Penno
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Simon Perreault
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Reinaldo Penno
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Simon Perreault
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Reinaldo Penno
- Re: [BEHAVE] proprietary implementation v.s stand… Simon Perreault
- Re: [BEHAVE] draft-xu-behave-nat-state-sync-00 Dan Wing