Re: [hybi] Reliable message delivery (was Re: Technical feedback.)

Jamie Lokier <jamie@shareable.org> Wed, 03 February 2010 01:03 UTC

Return-Path: <jamie@shareable.org>
X-Original-To: hybi@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: hybi@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 805D13A69A7 for <hybi@core3.amsl.com>; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 17:03:35 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.502
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.502 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.097, BAYES_00=-2.599]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uei5Zrcxrh1G for <hybi@core3.amsl.com>; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 17:03:34 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail2.shareable.org (mail2.shareable.org [80.68.89.115]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 981843A67E2 for <hybi@ietf.org>; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 17:03:34 -0800 (PST)
Received: from jamie by mail2.shareable.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <jamie@shareable.org>) id 1NcTfA-0004IL-0C; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 01:04:12 +0000
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 01:04:11 +0000
From: Jamie Lokier <jamie@shareable.org>
To: Greg Wilkins <gregw@webtide.com>
Message-ID: <20100203010411.GH32743@shareable.org>
References: <4B636757.3040307@webtide.com> <8449BE19-3061-4512-B563-02973FBB707B@apple.com> <5c902b9e1001292310l5442d476n8375139f3480671b@mail.gmail.com> <26D406E7-2319-476E-9ADF-80D84200C270@apple.com> <5c902b9e1001292333k79569316lf371938c9aa766@mail.gmail.com> <128BFD31-9835-47B1-B7A9-F20F5CDA8D8C@apple.com> <20100130144936.GD19124@shareable.org> <5c902b9e1001301552n6efb7969o34110373e3ab4945@mail.gmail.com> <4B672C9D.9010205@ericsson.com> <4B673702.8040206@webtide.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <4B673702.8040206@webtide.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11)
Cc: Hybi <hybi@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [hybi] Reliable message delivery (was Re: Technical feedback.)
X-BeenThere: hybi@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Server-Initiated HTTP <hybi.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hybi>, <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/hybi>
List-Post: <mailto:hybi@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hybi>, <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 01:03:35 -0000

Greg Wilkins wrote:
> I think fail fast is also desirable, but I'm not sure it is so
> desirable that I'd advocate a regular keep-alive message just
> failure detection.  But if keep-alive messages are required to
> keep open connections through transparent proxies, then it could
> be 2 birds with 1 stone.

Sad keepalive story.

I have used a 3G mobile network where a keepalive is needed every 30
seconds to keep an SSH connection alive, and I've used some other NAT
where 30 seconds was too long.

Keepalives are particularly unwelcome on mobile devices because of
the battery drain, but there is often no other easy way to reliably
pick up incoming data in a timely fashion.

I guess recommended keepalive values are something so go into the HTTP
long-polling recommendations document too.  We could do with measurements.

-- Jamie