Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks (ideas)
Dino Farinacci <farinacci@gmail.com> Wed, 04 October 2017 20:35 UTC
Return-Path: <farinacci@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ideas@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB6BA134485; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 13:35:39 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.999
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IqpKFs-IV6FP; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 13:35:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pg0-x22e.google.com (mail-pg0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C628C126B6D; Wed, 4 Oct 2017 13:35:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pg0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id m18so1012328pgd.13; Wed, 04 Oct 2017 13:35:36 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=duMlAHVY0QH7MwJPo6caLf3gIUMG/9ck8nPM3IUlXzU=; b=P+yX20UU9M2iXgPq5b6FhVULqsUbikGhTuRv9FugqBUPsf5QrIlbrCEmm4jzQ+fWUF yJBSz4qwXRb6jc25dCnq4lz86UI0cQ9BXsaQCEtlwxk8BOvOp0tKTLtUVBrd175rSf5q p7RI3HyVpoNX73jfvAuKnW0mX6fSJ1nE/1Nt07+SpW+HWCvgoT7UertUBIHBOqlGDnoB s/Wn79hm7yuc+xc+HJ2xL4x54U3PTR79egZKUdDq8RLc9aQqRuQQl0T88axhyjir2nA9 G9SIbOV7H8oPR7JoxUY2eCYQuXKNB9TFG/a/pHPi6QaV4WmHncGhfguD8myYmEOevQjk QU+w==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=duMlAHVY0QH7MwJPo6caLf3gIUMG/9ck8nPM3IUlXzU=; b=D0fybi3T4SknSKJV7IcyPrsIB8oQU48qdB8kknw5ONlPR8r+i1xb1iI+QOVHC6slaA RzJpkpVjAJWeN5HD5pxfYoaJtKgoh52xmx/82WZIIv7RahHQ/2dWk7gjsnnhg6Oe26oy K9OUWc4JWqptNfFkd/gAOcFpsXPZ/5mRJbzWXrGYoDpn1o6pmFlU/ldhwmA8OAOflbtb BtLvRY3QyuFqiiRIjxHpv7qG220KTiF9deSvZhqf9hNq/9wwcUfpW2n2YNyXMYtM3MG+ XrF13dI6B0E5GFaU+TdtlKL/kr1pHmunZOWKiMPkMOGGGypwa4iuBlGubq2+ujFvrIFg 4Uxg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaUBvzv19usJvkZ1ZdSw/rLh3mzKQGaqAwKrZUNUStbtHa9ZRHTJ 8ioWIbdnYTXSQ3Kj3dC2axg=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QBGpqNZZN6eqpIaKgVB4nZwtc6GccODtJfssKdRN5MvOXJeDWfdVBTTVbfSSOysIQE9FG7H8w==
X-Received: by 10.99.103.68 with SMTP id b65mr11100095pgc.271.1507149336286; Wed, 04 Oct 2017 13:35:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [10.197.31.157] (173-11-119-245-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [173.11.119.245]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g68sm25709075pfb.120.2017.10.04.13.35.32 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 04 Oct 2017 13:35:33 -0700 (PDT)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\))
From: Dino Farinacci <farinacci@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <dd2c3bd5-dd37-109b-2e81-0327db4daa09@cs.tcd.ie>
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2017 13:35:32 -0700
Cc: Alexander Clemm <alexander.clemm@huawei.com>, Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com>, "ideas@ietf.org" <ideas@ietf.org>, "phill@hallambaker.com" <phill@hallambaker.com>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>, "lisp@ietf.org list" <lisp@ietf.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <0BA14206-DC82-49EF-A625-B2425FA396F6@gmail.com>
References: <150670160872.14128.2758037992338326085.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <778d5504-ba4f-d418-7b20-356353bb0fb2@cs.tcd.ie> <CAMm+Lwg61PGrcmu=-e8ciD6Q+XmEaWWDys4g2M657VOjWmaGcg@mail.gmail.com> <CALx6S370-TuoUicWep5vV2NjLPS4d-HP1qVxW_nGrxhBLw6Eug@mail.gmail.com> <8kd5pq.oxb4pv.rtlo8t-qmf@mercury.scss.tcd.ie> <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EAA7204@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> <dd2c3bd5-dd37-109b-2e81-0327db4daa09@cs.tcd.ie>
To: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ideas/Ba7exsn9mUie2LjczOCKI5Gvryk>
Subject: Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks (ideas)
X-BeenThere: ideas@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discussions relating to the development, clarification, and implementation of control-plane infrastructures and functionalities in ID enabled networks." <ideas.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ideas>, <mailto:ideas-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ideas/>
List-Post: <mailto:ideas@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ideas-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas>, <mailto:ideas-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2017 20:35:40 -0000
Adding lisp@ietf.org to cc list. How about creating a working group that solely focuses on deployment of a mapping system and does not specify how and where identifiers are allocated? I have made suggestions before that such a working group should be in the ops area. Some examples include and are not limited to v6ops, dnsop, and mboned. Cheers, Dino > On Oct 4, 2017, at 12:45 PM, Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> wrote: > > > Hiya, > > TL;DR - I am now even more convinced that this ought not > go ahead. (Sorry;-) > > On 04/10/17 19:48, Alexander Clemm wrote: >> There were a couple of things raised in the overall thread that I >> just wanted to quickly respond to: >> >> Clearly privacy is an important issue and concern. The current >> charter proposal includes a requirement for a detailed analysis of >> this aspect. If this aspect needs to be expanded, sure, let's do >> this. > > TBH, I don't think that'd help, for me at least. I don't > see any way in which such permanent strings representing > identity can be defined to be usable as claimed and not > be perniciously privacy invasive. So some promises to > ponder the problem in charter text wouldn't do it for > me. (And tbh, I've seen that can kicked down that road > before, so I'm skeptical of such promises in general.) > >> Everyone seems to be jumping up and down regarding the use of the >> term of "identity" as if a foregone conclusion that this is a synonym >> for "privacy invasion". However: - "Identity" does not imply >> "personal identity". Really, this is an identifier scheme for >> endpoints. > > Sorry, what I assume is the relevant draft [1] says the "identity" > (denoted "IDy") is a "Unique and Permanent Identity" and that > "Networks may treat traffic differently depending on the IDy of > source or destination" and also seems to envisage a large logical > database of everyone's IDy's: "Identity also allows to have metadata > associated it to be applied, regardless of which IDf is used to > refer it." (Where IDf is the identifier that'll later be mapped > to a locator via, I assume, HIP or LISP or similar.) > > I think it's entirely correct to jump up and down about the > privacy consequences of the above. (Not to mention the potential > censorship and discriminatory aspects.) > > [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ccm-ideas-identity-use-cases-01 > >> Perhaps even "identity" is a misnomer. > > Well, it was presumably your choice (where your == some set of > the proponents). If that's a mistake, then it seems a fairly > fatal one - to get the name wrong for an effort all about mapping > names to identifiers;-) > >> If you will, >> identity as conceived in the context of IDEAS is a second level of >> identifier that does not have to be exposed over the data plane - >> Because of this, it may result in greater privacy than existing >> schemes, not less. > > I see that argument in [1] but I'm not buying it tbh. To get > that level of protection from such an indirection, one would > have to have something like Tor hidden services and perhaps > one would have to *not* standardise the mapping from human > meaningful identifiers to those used as IDf, and esp. not the > reverse mapping. Defining that reverse mapping cannot but be > privacy invasive afaics. (There could maybe be ways to define > how an already hashed human meaningful identifier could then > be further hashed to become an IDy but I don't really see the > point of that at all, other than to just standardise something > for the fun of the process.) > >> It enables you, for example, to obfuscate >> endpoints to outside observers as you wouldn't need to use personal >> unique long-lived identifiers, quite the contrary. - There is also a >> security dimension here. If I am victim of a phishing attack because >> my network information (like today) is exposed to botnets, > > (Nit: that says nothing about being a victim of, only of being > a target of, an attempted attack. Speaking of victims also > tends not to lead to more objective analysis, so I think it's > better to not go there unless it's relevant, which I don't > think is the case here, because...) > > I don't understand what network information you mean. If you > mean email addresses, and are proposing that the email ecosystem > change to use some IDf or LOC values, that doesn't seem at all > realistic to me. If you don't mean email addresses then I don't > see how any lower layer change will affect attempted phishes. > The routing area is probably also the entirely wrong venue for > any real anti-phishing effort. > > That really wasn't a good example;-) > >> phishers >> etc who can hide from me (but not I from them) and remain anonymous >> or impersonate legitimate users, I do consider this a very serious >> threat also to my privacy. How can IETF counteract such threats? I >> think that IDEAS, if done right, can provide a contribution here. > > I don't see that at all. Unless I'm mistaken that seems like > wishful thinking to me. > >> >> One aspect that has been missing from the discussion is the question >> whether there is a distinction between the network provider who >> provides GRIDS services and an outside attacker / observer. I think >> this distinction is important. The way I see it, if done right >> (sure, big "if", and requiring detailed analysis), IDEAS as I would >> envision it can contribute greatly to provide greater security and >> privacy from outside attackers. At the same time, as it is currently >> envisioned, there clearly is a trust relationship between an entity >> and the provider of "its" GRIDS services. The mapping database will >> have information about locator-identifier and identifier-identifier >> mappings, so GRIDS will know which identifiers its endpoints are >> using. Clearly, if this trust is abused because the provider cannot >> be trusted, if you are concerned that it sells your endpoint’s >> information to the mob or a suppressive government, there is an >> issue. However, when concerned about this scenario, it seems to me >> one would have equal reason to e.g. not trust your mobile service >> provider either, who can track you, knows your location, and has your >> customer data. > > ISTM that introducing that GRIDS thing makes matters worse and not > better, because, as you yourself say, it is clear that whoever has > access to the GRIDS information would be better able to track people > compared to now. > > I would prefer to see fewer long lived identifiers in networking > and not more, and this proposal introduces more long lived identifiers > (erroneously calling those identities). > > Regardless of what one thinks of them, given that things like > HIP and LISP exist, and try tackle the ID/LOC split, I see no benefit > adding this extra layer of indirection with a privacy invasive > "Unique and Permanent" identifier which seems to be the only > non-overlapping part of this work - in fact I only see downsides. > > Cheers, > S. > > >> >> --- Alex >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Ideas >>> [mailto:ideas-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >>> stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 9:35 >>> AM To: tom@herbertland.com Cc: ideas@ietf.org; >>> phill@hallambaker.com; ietf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ideas] WG >>> Review: IDentity Enabled Networks (ideas) >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, 4 October 2017, Tom Herbert wrote: >>>> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 7:57 AM, Phillip Hallam-Baker >>>> <phill@hallambaker.com> wrote: >>>>> On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 2:31 PM, Stephen Farrell >>>>> <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> As currently described, I oppose creation of this working >>>>>> group on the basis that it enables and seemingly encourages >>>>>> embedding identifiers for humans as addresses. Doing so would >>>>>> have significant privacy downsides, would enable new methods >>>>>> for censorship and discrimination, and could be very hard to >>>>>> mitigate should one wish to help protect people's privacy, as >>>>>> I think is current IETF policy. >>>>>> >>>>>> If the work precluded the use of any identifiers that >>>>>> strongly map to humans then I'd be ok with it being done as >>>>>> it'd then only be a waste of resources. But I don't know how >>>>>> that could be enforced so I think it'd be better to just not >>>>>> do this work at all. >>>>>> >>>>>> S. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> +1 >>>>> >>>>> I know how to restrict the work to 'meaningless' identifiers, >>>>> require that the identifiers be the output of a cryptographic >>>>> algorithm. >>>>> >>>>> Now strictly speaking, this only limits scope to identifiers >>>>> that are indexical as opposed to rendering them meaningless but >>>>> I think that was the sense of it. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Nöth proposed a trichotemy of identifiers as follows >>>>> >>>>> * Identity, the signifier is the signified (e.g. data: URI) >>>>> >>>>> * Indexical, the signifier is related to the signified by a >>>>> systematic relationship, (e.g. ni URIs, SHA256Data), PGP >>>>> fingerprints etc.) >>>>> >>>>> * Names, the signifier is the related to the signified by a >>>>> purely conventional relationship, (e.g. example.com to its >>>>> owner) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> There is a big difference between attempting to manage >>>>> indexical signifiers and names. Especially when the people >>>>> trying to do so refuse to read any of the literature on >>>>> semiotics. >>>>> >>>>> Names are problematic because the only way that a conventional >>>>> relationship can be implemented is through some sort of >>>>> registration infrastructure and we already have one of those >>>>> and the industry that manages it has a marketcap in the tens of >>>>> billions. >>>>> >>>>> Identifiers do lead to tractable solutions. But, this proposal >>>>> looks a bit unfocused for IRTF consideration, an IETF WG? >>>>> Really? >>>>> >>>> Identifiers are equivalent to addresses in that they indicate a >>>> node in the network for the purposes of end to end >>>> communications. The only difference between identifiers and >>>> addresses is that identifiers are not topological. Virtual >>>> addresses in network virtualization are also identifiers. So the >>>> security properties are the same when considering privacy. For >>>> instance, if applications use temporary addresses for privacy, it >>>> would have equivalent properties using temporary identifiers. In >>>> fact from the application POV this would be transparent. It could >>>> get a pool of apparently random addresses to choose from as >>>> source of communication, it shouldn't know or even care if the >>>> addresses are identifiers. >>>> >>>> Identity is a completely separate concept from identifiers. Is >>>> not required in any of the identifier/locator protocols and AFAIK >>>> none of them even mention the term. There is no association of an >>>> identity of user behind and identifier any more than there is an >>>> association of identity behind IP address. The fact that the >>>> words "identifier" and "identity" share a common prefix is an >>>> unfortunate happenstance :-). >>> >>> >>> Yes. But doesn't that mean either the name of this effort is wildly >>> misleading or else the effort is hugely problematic from a privacy >>> POV? Either way, istm this ought not proceed. >>> >>> S. >>> >>>> >>>> Tom >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ Ideas mailing list >>> Ideas@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas > > _______________________________________________ > Ideas mailing list > Ideas@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas
- Re: [Ideas] Fwd: Fwd: Re: WG Review: IDentity Ena… Tom Herbert
- Re: [Ideas] Fwd: Fwd: Re: WG Review: IDentity Ena… Tom Herbert
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Ideas] Fwd: Fwd: Re: WG Review: IDentity Ena… Templin, Fred L
- [Ideas] Fwd: Fwd: Re: WG Review: IDentity Enabled… Christian Huitema
- Re: [Ideas] Fwd: Fwd: Re: WG Review: IDentity Ena… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [Ideas] Fwd: Fwd: Re: WG Review: IDentity Ena… Tom Herbert
- Re: [Ideas] Fwd: Fwd: Re: WG Review: IDentity Ena… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [Ideas] Fwd: Fwd: Re: WG Review: IDentity Ena… Christian Huitema
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Christian Huitema
- Re: [Ideas] Fwd: Fwd: Re: WG Review: IDentity Ena… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [Ideas] Fwd: Fwd: Re: WG Review: IDentity Ena… Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Ideas] Fwd: Fwd: Re: WG Review: IDentity Ena… Uma Chunduri
- Re: [Ideas] Fwd: Fwd: Re: WG Review: IDentity Ena… Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Stephen Farrell
- [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks (ide… The IESG
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Tom Herbert
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … stephen.farrell
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … John C Klensin
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Tom Herbert
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Alexander Clemm
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Eggert, Lars
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Uma Chunduri
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Padmadevi Pillay Esnault
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Jari Arkko
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Uma Chunduri
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Alexander Clemm
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Uma Chunduri
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Padma Pillay-Esnault
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Tom Herbert
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Yingzhen Qu
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Uma Chunduri
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Joel Halpern Direct
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Mike StJohns
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Uma Chunduri
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Uma Chunduri
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Uma Chunduri
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Padma Pillay-Esnault
- Re: [Ideas] Fwd: Re: WG Review: IDentity Enabled … Padma Pillay-Esnault
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Padma Pillay-Esnault
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Uma Chunduri
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Georgios Karagiannis
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Padma Pillay-Esnault
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Uma Chunduri
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Padma Pillay-Esnault
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Padma Pillay-Esnault
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … S Moonesamy
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Padma Pillay-Esnault
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … S Moonesamy
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Tom Herbert
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Padma Pillay-Esnault
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Padma Pillay-Esnault
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Uma Chunduri
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Tom Herbert
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … S Moonesamy
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Alexander Clemm
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Alvaro Retana
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Randy Bush
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Eggert, Lars
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Uma Chunduri
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Randy Bush
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Jeff Tantsura
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Randy Bush
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Christian Huitema
- Re: [Ideas] [lisp] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Ne… Padma Pillay-Esnault
- Re: [Ideas] [lisp] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Ne… Alexander Clemm
- Re: [Ideas] [lisp] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Ne… Christian Huitema
- Re: [Ideas] [lisp] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Ne… Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Ideas] [lisp] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Ne… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Padma Pillay-Esnault
- Re: [Ideas] [lisp] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Ne… Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Ideas] [lisp] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Ne… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Padma Pillay-Esnault
- Re: [Ideas] [lisp] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Ne… Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Ideas] [lisp] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Ne… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Ideas] [lisp] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Ne… Sam Sun
- Re: [Ideas] [lisp] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Ne… Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Ideas] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Networks … Georgios Karagiannis
- Re: [Ideas] [lisp] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Ne… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Ideas] [lisp] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Ne… Tom Herbert
- Re: [Ideas] [lisp] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Ne… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Ideas] [lisp] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Ne… Tom Herbert
- Re: [Ideas] [lisp] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Ne… John C Klensin
- Re: [Ideas] [lisp] WG Review: IDentity Enabled Ne… Toerless Eckert