IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Ntp] NTPv5: big picture

Magnus Danielson <magnus@rubidium.se> Tue, 05 January 2021 17:56 UTC

Return-Path: <magnus@rubidium.se>
X-Original-To: ntp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ntp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5ECA3A1093 for <ntp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 5 Jan 2021 09:56:52 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.36
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.36 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.262, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rubidium.se
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j08pbG9mkTmX for <ntp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 5 Jan 2021 09:56:50 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ste-pvt-msa1.bahnhof.se (ste-pvt-msa1.bahnhof.se [213.80.101.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F6A43A1086 for <ntp@ietf.org>; Tue, 5 Jan 2021 09:56:49 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ste-pvt-msa1.bahnhof.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8471B3F713 for <ntp@ietf.org>; Tue, 5 Jan 2021 18:56:48 +0100 (CET)
Authentication-Results: ste-pvt-msa1.bahnhof.se; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=rubidium.se header.i=@rubidium.se header.b=mp7SZSDj; dkim-atps=neutral
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at bahnhof.se
Received: from ste-pvt-msa1.bahnhof.se ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ste-pvt-msa1.bahnhof.se [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0j0h7ZyxfWwx for <ntp@ietf.org>; Tue, 5 Jan 2021 18:56:46 +0100 (CET)
Received: by ste-pvt-msa1.bahnhof.se (Postfix) with ESMTPA id C7F8F3FA65 for <ntp@ietf.org>; Tue, 5 Jan 2021 18:56:46 +0100 (CET)
Received: from machine.local (unknown [192.168.0.15]) by magda-gw (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 369C29A00A7; Tue, 5 Jan 2021 18:56:46 +0100 (CET)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=rubidium.se; s=rubidium; t=1609869406; bh=CCCnO9PTk/9BLLD5RU6Q4l25MsMUiklgSJWEW58UGiw=; h=Cc:Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=mp7SZSDjjibCvC9YRJPmyY77Ao0uXrE8N+rywXiLewAmxmvfjEq5hbVs8iahrugBM Tf6wiSQBX2XQzihCNUZ/08aLKvuP+Lo/k9edmrUx5AGSOn1js5HxFdoQmrNGPTmenY Xl6mygNxD1QuNkh27s+Usuhj0g39qGsB90L1wjP3sxRsxu7Bk3V1TeK7MfXTXSnKNO XPMqfoBwyn77ErqtPJv0UBmtw4d5l5V3HVVERyrAbFKj0POUcVtrfe4posp5ZHgDtC euR0RRExBjLHZFHmGVxlLP7eofSGQYDgjys2yM7CJz1/6V3bfOvTwcK9rDA6y10CNj 9DbUsKcbM8tHg==
Cc: magnus@rubidium.se
To: ntp@ietf.org
References: <20210101025440.ECE3340605C@ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net> <CAFTY+dChQ5pX2w9tqz=ORsorfFVNCeeherrBjuRLP77iSLKCag@mail.gmail.com> <CAJm83bDheTXhwS6wEEPVe8hu-zbhy01H+3q7Wx85_3aYBYmt+w@mail.gmail.com>
From: Magnus Danielson <magnus@rubidium.se>
Message-ID: <991964dd-d365-c3a1-92fd-8d272d27de2d@rubidium.se>
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2021 18:56:45 +0100
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.6.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CAJm83bDheTXhwS6wEEPVe8hu-zbhy01H+3q7Wx85_3aYBYmt+w@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------8693A83F25A86B6FCAE0881B"
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ntp/QP4SlfxsJ5dwW6Y-M5CUsUYOnpY>
Subject: Re: [Ntp] NTPv5: big picture
X-BeenThere: ntp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ntp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ntp>, <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ntp/>
List-Post: <mailto:ntp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ntp>, <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2021 17:56:53 -0000

Daniel,

On 2021-01-05 17:09, Daniel Franke wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 11:00 AM James Browning <jamesb.fe80@gmail.com
> <mailto:jamesb.fe80@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     My shortlist is to shift the epoch to 2020, (a)symmetric
>     authentication
>     to extensions, and the timescale to TAI based not UTC based.
>
>
> Can we have something less cursed? The engineers of our civil calendar
> chose the birth of their savior, and you want to choose *2020*?

We can choose 1 Jan 2021 as I proposed as an arbitrary point, we could
choose my birthday on 27th April as an even more arbitrary point, not
that I would recommend it. It would be a nice gesture thought, but I am
not going to ask for it. :)

We could also choose the low-hanging fruit of the PTP-epoch, which is
engineered to look like the old UNIX time_t, but defined in a suitable
TAI point such that normal UTC pops out as the TAI-UTC difference is
applied.

I'm not saying we need to use the PTP-epoch, it can be arbitrary and the
only real thing we should consider is that we actually have from now
integer SI-second difference to TAI and to UTC, which would align up
well with all the major time-scales we would like to consider. I am
however saying that the PTP-epoch and time-scale might be very very
handy to use.

Cheers,
Magnus

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email