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Re: [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: CLOCK_TAI (was NTPv5: big picture)

Doug Arnold <doug.arnold@meinberg-usa.com> Fri, 08 January 2021 15:35 UTC

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From: Doug Arnold <doug.arnold@meinberg-usa.com>
To: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>, Martin Burnicki <martin.burnicki=40meinberg.de@dmarc.ietf.org>
CC: Ulrich Windl <Ulrich.Windl@rz.uni-regensburg.de>, "mlichvar@redhat.com" <mlichvar@redhat.com>, "emmanuel.fuste@thalesgroup.com" <emmanuel.fuste@thalesgroup.com>, "ntp@ietf.org" <ntp@ietf.org>, "magnus@rubidium.se" <magnus@rubidium.se>
Thread-Topic: [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: CLOCK_TAI (was NTPv5: big picture)
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Subject: Re: [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: CLOCK_TAI (was NTPv5: big picture)
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Well said.

From: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>
Date: Friday, January 8, 2021 at 10:30 AM
To: Martin Burnicki <martin.burnicki=40meinberg.de@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: Doug Arnold <doug.arnold@meinberg-usa.com>, Ulrich Windl <Ulrich.Windl@rz.uni-regensburg.de>, "mlichvar@redhat.com" <mlichvar@redhat.com>, "emmanuel.fuste@thalesgroup.com" <emmanuel.fuste@thalesgroup.com>, "ntp@ietf.org" <ntp@ietf.org>, "magnus@rubidium.se" <magnus@rubidium.se>
Subject: Re: [Ntp] Antw: [EXT] Re: CLOCK_TAI (was NTPv5: big picture)


On Fri, Jan 8, 2021, 8:22 AM Martin Burnicki <martin.burnicki=40meinberg.de@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:40meinberg.de@dmarc.ietf.org>> wrote:
Doug Arnold wrote:
> I think that the point of a leap smear is that no special handling of leap seconds is needed by the client.  It is introduced gradually over a number of polling periods.

That's exactly the point. You want to hide the leap second from the
client to avoid that *applications* run into problems when the kernel
just steps the time back by 1 second.

My fundamental position on leap seconds hasn't changed in 20 years: they are evil and must die. Earth clocks and atomic clocks need a different way to synchronize. Leap seconds generate dozens of edge cases, operational difficulties and data dependencies that complicate time for everyone and all that added complication has a cost that far exceeds the benefit.

Smearing is the latest way to paper over all this and keep applications naive. I'm not sure if I view it as a brilliant hack to protect the applications from a rushed standard we are stuck with, or a deeply worrying "enabling" of bad behavior by applications, libraries and operating systems.

Warner

Martin
--
Martin Burnicki

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